Design
Finalizing The Guest Cottage Bathroom Layout + Vote For Your Favorite!!
Ok. Y’all are opinionated, which I love because you come with a set of experiences that I don’t have, and the more experience = more informed choices. In our last post, about the stained glass doors, there was a firestorm in the comments about many of you not wanting to use the toilet near a urinal without visual or physical protection. While it’s not our intent to be used at the same time, it seemed like it just felt gross that your face would be in the same line as the urinal (with possible residual “elements” lingering). If we are being honest, it seems that this urinal is not a popular idea amongst women, but Brian, Charlie, and all their friends are so excited about it that I’m still team urinal. Listen making people have fun in my home is pretty much my #1 driver in life, and these two urinal-loving men (and my brother) are SO excited. So now I need to get the ladies back on board. Message received – we need some separation between the two.
So with the help of our new extremely intuitive design program, Spoak, we were able to lay out the options for you both visually and totally accurately (with measurements), as both elevations and floorplans. And we even plugged in actual product selects when we had them. THIS IS TRULY A DREAM. If you are like me and don’t know any rendering programs but love to design and decorate, please check it out. We are still learning all the endless bells and whistles (and they are innovating every day), but the basics are incredibly intuitive, and we’ll be talking a lot about them this year. Check out Spoak.
Option #1: Single Outhouse – WITH PARTITION
This was our original plan, but we added a partition between the toilet and the urinal. A great option is a pony wall that comes out from the back wall. This could be built out of wood and paneled or tiled. It could also be metal (think literal bathroom partition) or even glass (like a window, possibly stained glass?).
Pros: We get to keep the best layout, but add that tiny bit of separation. Could also add a tiled backsplash with a clear starting/stopping point that would be pretty (without having to do the whole wall).
Cons: Might need to remove the partition in the future to be ADA compliant. Again (and I want to be super clear), we don’t plan on renting out the property for small events until well after kids graduate (if at all), so if we wanted it to be accessible, we might need to modify things down the line. To me, this is a pretty easy change, and hell, we could add a shower curtain in between them with a waterproof fabric on the men’s side (LOLOLOLOL… ok now even I’m grossed out ). I also want to note that I think it would work for any friends/visitors or future parents who need accessibility, it just might not be technically in compliance.
Pros: The layout of the bathroom is still the best. The flow from door to door is easy, and there are clear visual focal points and nice sightlines. Lots of breathing room and no obstructions, but admittedly, the sink is small here.
Cons: We might need to make it a tiny bit wider to accommodate the partition without it being really crammed in there. Also, the design of the partition would have be real good as it’s the main sightline when you look in here.
*****UPDATE: As I’m writing this post, I’m considering moving that window higher (we’ve decided to replace it anyway as it’s so damaged), and if so, we could put the sink/vanity in front of that window. Right now, the window is crazy low (like 18″ off the floor), so I could raise it to be 30″ and use that space instead. And then do something so pretty with a single sink and vanity area, should we ever have, say, bridal parties get ready in there. Here’s how that floorplan would look:
Option #2: Double Outhouse – ARGUABLY THE CUTEST
How cute is this!!?? And your face wouldn’t be within inches of a urinal, pleasing most of you (I hope). This is the most direct layout pulled from the inspiration (the two tiled rooms inside – shower and toilet room). It’s pretty dang cute and gives “his” and “hers” in the best of ways.
Pros: Separate spaces for each. General adorableness of having two twin mini buildings. Also, we could do a colorful toilet, which I want to do, but there are no colorful urinals to match. But with each having their own rooms, I could do a blue or green toilet in one and a black urinal in the other. BTW, I might also do this anyway in the same outhouse and just figure out how to balance it visually.
Cons: Would have to remove at least the toilet room outhouse structure if we ever wanted to be accessible or ADA compliant. One stained glass door on its own is only 24″ wide, which is pretty narrow (but doable, our toilet room in our primary and our guest room bathroom doors are only 24″ wide). But also, the sink is pretty crammed and narrow. See here:
Besides the crammed sink, it’s tricky; the flow and sightlines aren’t the best. There is enough clearance around the tub to walk, but the doorway-to-doorway flow is clunky – you have to walk out and around this 52″ deep structure. Doable, but less of a good flow for sure. I, of course, could reconfigure the whole thing, but it’s starting to feel like this is just a cute option, but not the best.
Option #3: Single-Wide Outhouse – ACCESSIBILITY FOCUSED
Ok, here is a single outhouse, but with the sink inside, between the toilet and the urinal. I think this would be enough separation from the urinal for all my lady friends, right?
Pros: The larger shed is likely ADA-compliant. The door opening is 48″ with enough space inside to maneuver. I also love that the sink would be centered and the prettiest sightline when the doors are open. The toilet and urinal are separated by a sink.
Cons: The doors feel too small, less special, and there is something more “shed-like” than “outhouse” which is hilarious to compare (I hope you all know that we are internally laughing at the word “outhouse” every time, knowing that this is not the dream of most homeowners but I have such a clear vision for it I promise!). I worry that this structure is just too big to be cute and quirky. We could flank the doors with smaller windows, of course, and work with it, but she’s big.
The flow is a bit clunky here, too, in this floorplan. Making the outhouse ADA-compliant might just make the building too big. But to be honest, we are unsure how much space we actually need to have. Gretch found this graphic, which says we need 30-48″ of clear floor space, but not in both directions.
It seems to me that we need it to be 59″ deep + framing materials (so 65″) in total to be compliant, which is admittedly very deep. But I wonder if there is a world where, if the doors are left open and the bathroom is treated technically like one large bathroom (not having the WC be the compliance measurement), that we might be ok? Like could the doorway opening space be part of our turnaround area that we would need?
I feel like I’m really getting in the weeds here, BTW. Brian doesn’t even want to rent out our property like I do in 15 years, so maybe we don’t need to make it “technically” or “legally” accessible (although I would love to make it work for as many abilities as possible just in general). OR maybe we just design it how we want to for now, and then if we turn this into a business in 10-15 years, we invest in modifications. But it’s interesting to learn, and I love a challenge. And regardless of compliance, we do have a lot of people over, and I’d love to be that house that people of abilities can come knowing they are taken care of.
Option #4: South Outhouse – SHINING STAINED GLASS
We wanted to address those of you who thought that stained glass would be pointless without a window or light source inside the outhouse to make the colors shine. We’ll call you “team outdated Pizza Hut” because you likened it to a Pizza Hut. While I don’t agree, we had this exact same conversation and temporarily relocated the outhouse a few weeks ago. There is a pretty bad window with a terrible view (of a chain link fence) that we had planned on getting rid of. But the idea crossed our mind to put the stained glass doors in front of it and see how that would look.
The stained glass absolutely lit up, in both good and really BRIGHT ways. Obviously its WAY more powerful, bright, saturated, and dominant. But I’m not on team “outdated Pizza Hut”. I think that stained glass done right can have light flowing through it, of course, but can also just be a textural and colorful material (especially the more opaque colors, not the transparent). Think dark speakeasy bars, saloons, libraries, etc. And yes, there will be a light inside the outhouse, two huge skylights, and a huge window across from it, if it’s on the other wall, so I promise we’ll get some light in there! (Also pretty sure Gen Z loves nostalgic Pizza Huts and TGIF’s – they are coming back!).
The main con of this layout is the terrible flow coming out of the door (from the speakeasy). Now, of course, we can move the door and/or move the tub to be in front of the window. But when you are in the space, this flow felt bad (and we don’t want to move the door because we want the wall in the adjacent room not be interrupted with a doorway – I’ve got plans for that wall).
So the options are:
- Single outhouse with a partition, big and easy to access, but maybe not technically ADA compliant.
- Double outhouse – so cute, but definitely smaller rooms.
- Large ADA-compliant outhouse/shed.
- South wall outhouse (AKA the southhouse) with some re-configuration.
Time To VOTE!!!
We just developed this new tech for this house project – in-blog voting (this is so fun). So please, please comment too, but for those of you who want it to be easier – click your button 🙂
What Am I Leaning Towards?
Option 1 – OG outhouse, BUT I want to try to lay it out with a larger vanity in front of the window. But check this out – we could also leave the small sink where it is and then add a vanity for getting ready/hair/makeup, but with no sink, so it doesn’t need plumbing, in which case it can be put in later?
Also, I’d really love to hear from those of you with experience with ADA compliance – either needing it yourself in a wheelchair, with an aging parent, or if you have designed any more residential-inspired ADA-compliant spaces. Curious if #1 is enough room to navigate if the stained glass doors remained open (with the main door locked and shades closed). Again, this is our home, and currently we don’t need to be beholden to city compliance, and there is a chance we’ll never make a real business out of it, or maybe just rent to photo shoots and occasional team off-sites, retreats, or family reunions (but not an actual event venue). So if I don’t heed your advice, it’s likely because we just don’t want to make big decisions right now on this huge “maybe”. But gathering information from all of you to make the best decision is such an incredible perk of the job. Thank you 🙂
Also, does adding the partition in #1 satisfy all the “no urinals near my face” folks out there? Please say yes!!!!!
Opening Image Credits: Photo by Kailtin Green
Could you please tell us again which door leads to the guest house and which leads outside? Could you also show us the property map again? Which door will be used most?
I believe this was the latest floorplan.
And, whoa, back up Emily did you just say “terrible flow from the speakeasy” with no additional explanation. I don’t remember hearing about a speakeasy before. Tell us more!
ooh sorry. ok yes the door on the right of the floorplan leads to outside (so its closer to the big window if that helps?) the other door goes into the speakeasy/big room. honestly not sure what will be used most (neither that much, TBH). When we have gatherings we’ll encourage this to be the bathroom but otherwise when my team works there we’ll likely come in through the main entrance. So i’d say 10 times a summer for gatherings it might get more kids/folks than usual.
i don’t think i see the vision for this one, i am still confused by the whole internal outhouse thing, but i’m excited to see what you decide
I get that 🙂 I’m also excited to see what I decide. its definitely not typical and a total experiment which is extremely fun.
Why not just put the toilet in the outhouse and build an actual outhouse with a urinal in it outside? Then people can use both at once.
If I was a bridal party I’d find a urinal in a bathroom I was getting ready in pretty gross. I didn’t vote for any of the layouts because I don’t feel like you’ve nailed it yet. Having the sink outside the toilet doesn’t feel right because you have to open the door to wash your hands (which will make it feel like a public toilet). What will be the surround on the shower? I think this will be confusing because is it a powder room or a bathroom? Isn’t there going to be another bathroom upstairs? You could get rid of the shower and tub and make two big cute outhouse. Or get rid of the bath and have 3 super cute “outhouses” in a row like bathing boxes one with a shower one with a toilet and one with a urinal all along the west wall. Very intrigued where you will land on this.
I like this idea of a separate urinal outhouse. I don’t see a bridal party wanting a urinal in their space and it feels to me like I’ve walked in the men’s room.
The thought of having a urinal in the bridal getting ready suite has me rolllllling! Like, the exact opposite vibe of what I’d want to be in my slippers and curlers 😂 Team “separate stalls or nothing”!
Yeah, I feel like in addition to ADA compliance, another thing most of these aren’t taking into account is the benefit of having the urinal and toilet separate from one another (if they’re together you can’t accommodate more simultaneous bathroom usage?) and having the sink outside the toilet/urinal area (sometimes you just want to wash your hands). With bith the urinal, toilet, and sink all together in one space you’re not expanding how many people can simultaneously use the space but rather creating one smaller space for everything. Like might as well just have them in the open from a functionally standpoint. Agree to give the urinal it’s own space entirely!
Its really just a single use bathroom, just a big fun one. Not meant to accommodate crowds or have multiple people in there unless getting ready on the off chance we allow weddings here in 10-20 years.
Agree that’s what it IS, but I like what Kate is saying on what it COULD BE. I like the option of multiple people using at once even if that only happens occasionally. And I agree with having access to the sink outside the outhouse because maybe you just need handwashing. I voted for the 2 separate cubbies, but I have concerns about the accessibility.
100% agree with this. I’ve been wondering all along why this isn’t being designed to have multiple people use it at the same time. I’m not against the urinal, I just think it should be by itself. Originally I thought that was the point of the internal outhouses – they’re like big fancy stalls. But then putting both the urinal and the toilet together make no sense, and putting the sink in there is really weird. Now it’s just a powder room with a urinal too, inside another room that’s also kind of a single use fancy primary bathroom but not connected to an actual bedroom. I guess I’m just REALLY confused about the purpose. Emily in some comments it’s just a big single use bathroom (but why? there’s a bathroom close to the bedrooms upstairs so why is the tub/shower needed down here? when will a tub/shower even be used when it’s off of the speakeasy/flex room?), but then you refer to wanting it to be the main bathroom for when you do your big neighborhood parties….it’s just so confusing. I just saw that you want this space to be possibly used as a possible in-laws suite…so then maybe… Read more »
I’d design for your enormous school parties, not Insta. How will parents change diapers or moms pump in this space? Grandparents in walkers navigate the weird doors? Big ‘n’ tall dads cramp in? Teen girls feel comfortable enough to change tampons? Queues of people waiting to use the facilities in the rain? Curious why you need a freestanding tub, here, too. I’d leave this party ASAP to be honest! This design choice feels weirdly HOSTILE to everyone but tween boys and content creators.
Agreed. What is the true purpose of this bathroom vs other spaces? This should determine if you need the shower AND tub. Is it a powder room/event bathroom? Is it the main bathroom for the house?
Option 4 – but rotate the outhouse so it’s facing the bottom door (facing the WH)?
Option 1/2/3 – but rotate the outhouse so it’s facing the bath?
Option 2 – double outhouses but don’t have the sink in the middle? Butt them up to each other.
My preference would be to build a fake wall so that part/most of the outhouse could be recessed behind the wall, so that it didn’t take up so much visual space in the room (even though the room would actually be smaller as a result), but not sure exactly where to do that as I don’t know what the rooms are on either side.
I think my preference is two outhouses – both with a small sink in there for washing hands before touching the handles to get out again. Otherwise it does feel a bit gross in such a confined space – it’ll always feel like you’re in the men’s toilets.
Honestly, if I was putting in a urinal I’d put it on the exterior of the guesthouse so the men/boys can access it without going inside. Add an actual outhouse!
ok its going to take a while for me to dig into your suggestions but I SO appreciate you commenting these! Seems like many people want an exterior outhouse which I haven’t really thought about but maybe should LOL.
My 2 cents from having 4 brothers, my dad and 3 sons is that they all prefer to just pee outside. Put the urinal outside for the guys and proceed as you wish inside. Any guy that doesn’t want to pee outside can just go use the bathroom. It will be a huge hit for most males and none of the women will have to deal with it. Heck, a pee hole in the ground for the guys with a big bulls eye would probably be an even bigger hit.
Yeah, what is up with that?
I’m 100% on board with this. If you can tack an outhouse on from the exterior (to access/insulate plumbing it will free you up so much in this space AND I think it will get VERY HEAVY use. (Install a floor drain and a spigot for a hose for cleaning.)
Removing the urinal to outside means there’s zero chance the guys will go inside to wash their hands.
Option 2 is the cutest because women won’t have to “see” the urinal. But I understand it might be cramped with the sink. But it might be ok? Or maybe there’s another layout to have two outhouses plus a shower (and nix the tub or maybe have a shower/tub combo instead)? As a woman, the few times I’ve used a bathroom with a urinal (ie when the line for the ladies room is too long), I always feel grossed out looking at the urinal.
the main reason i nixed the tub/shower combo is that if one of our parents ended up needing to live here they are hard to step into. And heck, we have the space (but that was my original thought). What if I showed you the most beautiful urinal ever? could that get you on board?
Genuinely asking – why do you need a tub in there? I can see the use for a shower in this scenario and also for washing off after yardwork/pool/etc. but why the tub?
Guests with little kids?
For me, the esthetics of the urinal are irrelevant. It’s the splashed-around liquid that (mostly) goes into it that I don’t want to see/smell/think about! (Yes, I’m aware I excrete the same liquid – ‘ick’ isn’t logical!!)
We have a family member in a wheelchair, so I am definitely on team ADA compliance. Believe me, you never know when an accident might happen and a person becomes wheelchair dependent.
They deserve a safe and respectful place to have their needs met. It could be a child or an adult in the chair and they will be so grateful to have a comfortable place to use the bathroom.
Maybe just put the urinal in the
Outhouse. I do love the outhouse idea- so fun.
I agree and so appreciate you commenting. I’m curious if you think that #1 would be room enough to maneuver if the stained glass doors were left open (but main door closed so its a private bathroom). My thinking is that we may never need this to be actually technically ADA compliant (again, if we were to rent it out for events it wouldn’t be for at least a decade), but with a bathroom this size, to your point, I want to make sure that we are setting ourselves up for enough space for any future needs.
YOU could be the one temporarily needing an accessible toilet even temporarily. My partner tripped on the dog’s line and tore hamstring and shoulder and couldn’t walk. For sure couldn’t use the stairs. It was temporary but anyone at any age can be temporarily “disabled”. It isnt always someone with a permanent condition
I had the same thought.
Emily I think you might have missed the bigger point of this original comment. It’s that ADA accessibility is just good universal design, because you never know if you or your immediate family might end up needing it.
My mother had a freak accident and was on the mend for about six months with limited mobility. My MIL has progressively bad arthritis and has trouble using the stairs every day in her own house. You never know what the future holds.
I’m 44 and managed to get myself in a leg cast and on crutches a couple of days ago. Using the stairs is challenging but luckily I designed the bathrooms to be accessible and I’m super grateful.
Did you consider putting only the urinal in the outhouse and the toilet in the main room? Only those truly excited by the urinal will get to see it, and the toilet would be more accessible with a better flow between the main fixtures for all users.
You know i didn’t consider that! that is NOT a bad idea!!
I was wondering if you have the depth and/or ability to center a (smaller?) window on that wall, put the sink under it, and then have two outhouses!
This is what I came here to say! Gets the urinal out of sight and you can place the toilet anywhere it fits. Or move the urinal outside into an outhouse. But I think this interior option would work.
They’d still have to open the outhouse door without washing their hands – but maybe people don’t wash their hands after using the urinal…. I don’t really know since I don’t use urinals
I voted for option 2 because I think 2 outhouses would be really cute and would solve the “ick” problem of the urinal (and I agree that’s a thing). But if you have to change the window anyway, why not put the sink/vanity in front of it? Also love the suggestion of putting the urinal in an outhouse outside
ah we totally could (put the vanity in front of the window) in #2. now i need to look at property to see where this outhouse could possibly go.
Yay! Great to still keep the urinal but elsewhere.
I like the idea of a big vanity separate from the sink! It can be very helpful to have surface area for the ladies. You could even put a changing pad on half of it for moms with babies. Can’t wait to see the reality!
YES TO THE CHANGING PAD OPTION.
YES was gonna comment this same thing!! Extra counter space and changing pad station!!
yes! thats a great idea! i think most realistically we’d rent this out for small retreats, family reunions and photo shoots so this could be a hair/makeup or wardrobe room.
If you’re considering having this as a hair/makeup room, make sure there’s plenty of room around the sink, and also plenty of counter space around the sink. The current little sink with no counter space will be an ongoing bottleneck.
And, you’ll need a row of electrical outlets and shelf space/ counter space somewhere (not by water), for plugging in hair appliances and doing hair.
I’m so curious what bride would want to do hair and makeup in any room where there was a urinal.
Or for dads with babies
Option 3 is even worse! Now I won’t feel like my hands get clean at the urinal sink. Much like the tiny sinks in port a potties. Haha. I know whatever you do will turn out great, you have the vision. Just my gut reaction.
OMG. your first sentence made me LOL. i’m reading these comments out loud to brian and we are both laughing so hard. you guys hate urinals!!!!
We have a urinal in the private bathroom at my office. It’s so gross- there’s always pee on the floor around it and makes the whole bathroom smell. I HATE it. If you’re doing this, definitely two separate outhouses , and a sink far away. I would never want to have to stand next to rouge pee on the ground to wash my hands.
Another vote for building an actual outhouse outside the main building for the urinal. 😆 Solves the ick factor for the ladies and might be even more fun and appealing for the guys.
In my experience, men will often treat the whole perimeter of a yard as a urinal if they don’t want to go inside. Lol! Seems wasteful and unnecessary to build an outhouse when they can just use the ground.
haha. thats exactly what brian just said when I pitched it to him 🙂
I meant it would be wasteful to build the outhouse outside. I think it will be cute inside.
A couple notes on ADA compliance- for the size you need a clear 5′ circle turn radius (called a turn radius, but the circle is 5′ diameter) to allow a wheelchair user to maneuver the space. You would also need to have clearance under the sink (i.e. not a regular vanity) so they could pull up with their knees under it. Another point of consideration would be steps- I thought there was a step from the main house into here, and presumably one to the outdoors? Steps are trip hazards for older people and just not idea for accessibility (though charming in older spaces). I personally think the “one step” is most difficult, because you don’t see or prepare for it the same. I think option 1 is the only one that could be ADA compliant, and while you may not be making that a requirement, I think it’s still really important to consider. I don’t have movement restrictions, but as a chronically ill person, there’s a lot of misunderstanding and being overlooked by the able-bodied population. There are probably more people with mobility issues than you think, even if you don’t see them in wheelchairs. Just something to consider… Read more »
Steps are a killer more than anything. With a parent with mobility issues using a mix of wheelchair and walker we can negotiate tight spaces with the walker and some rails but a step is much much more problematic. I wouldn’t even bother thinking about accessibility if you need to step up or down into the bathroom as it’s won’t be easily usable for many people with mobility issues. The same with the shower unless the screen and steps are properly designed. I would just design for the vision and accept that you may need to make changes in the future for accessibility as the vision and accessibility don’t really seem compatible in this space.
thank you! i really appreciate this. And yes there is a step outside that we haven’t started talking about it. we were thinking of pouring the steps and then modifying for a ramp if/when needed but I really appreciate your perspective. I’ll rethink it. I think if one of our parents lived inside it would be super easy to navigate (and the main reason we are actually putting the bathroom on this floor and not leaving it upstairs). But coming in and out requires either a ramp or multiple steps.
Please please please separate the toilet and urinal!!
If you went with option 3 to be ADA compliant you could add stained glass side light panels so the doors don’t look so small on the structure?
Yah that’s what we’d do!
I don’t have strong feeling about the outhouse options but I do think it’s a little weird to have a tub in this space. It seems like it’s either 1) closest bathroom to outside 2) teen hangout bathroom or 3) event space bathroom. None of those purposes would need a tub. Would be curious to see if you took the tub out of the equation what you could do with the space.
Yes, I’d go for option #2, remove the tub, and put a bigger sink (ideally double sink) either where the tub is or under the window. You could put cute, creatively designed storage of some sort (for extra toilet paper, supplies, etc) between the two water closets if you want.
If you want to keep the tub, you still could but put a double vanity under the window.
that’s a good idea, to use that area for storage. i’ll mock up the #2 with the vanity under the window and storage. its def the cutest!
Yes! This is the unlock. There is zero reason to have a bath and a shower in here. Take away one (or both if there is another shower in the house). Then you have so many more options.
I hear you, BUT you may not be considering my secret fantasy of one of our kids (or us) living here full time when they have a young family (yes, a mom can dream). So for a baby you need a tub or if I live here I’m a huge bather so i’d need a tub. Since we have the space i’m definitely putting in a tub.
It seems like you are trying to design the space to work simultaneously for all possible future scenarios. Option A in case of large hosted events/weddings. Option B in case of it turning into a full time living space. What would it look like if you just designed the space for how you will use it now? An externally accessible bathroom for neighborhood parties so that people don’t need to go into the main house when you are hosting school events. Respectfully, a bathtub in the way it will be used for the forseeable future does not make sense. A shower could be useful in the case of pool parties, and mutiple “outhouses” would be very useful to making the space functional as a bathroom during events. I voted for option 2 for this reason, but think that you could really optimize the space by removing the tub. If you did use if for Option B in the future, would you really want the family tub to be in the outhouse room? Or would it make more sense for that future point in time to add on a more private bathing room?
THIS. Stick to purpose – the actual, immediate function of the room – and good design will follow. Multiple “stalls” that each close and contain a toilet, urinal, or shower, plus a long vanity with at least 2 sinks.
EXACTLY THIS.
If the future plan is kind of a dream I would rough plumb in the tub but not install it until you need it, thus leaving more room. You can camouflage the pipes with storage and if the dream becomes a reality it’s easy to install because all the piping is there. Also tubs are kind of a pain to dust if they aren’t used.
Yes plumb for a tub but put it in later. or put in a tub and cover it with a vanity?? If that’s possible. And remove the vanity in that future Dreamtime when you / your grown kids are using the tub regularly
I was going to say the same thing. This possibility is a solid…15 years in the future? At which point a renovation of the party/events/hang out bathroom into a “we live here” bathroom would probably be in the cards anyway. You can make it even easier at that point if you rough plumb for it now, but I have a feeling that after 10+ years you’d want to change some things up already.
I’m not a pro but I’ve done a lot of renovations and I do all my own design work (including some pretty big layout changes in our current house). I’ve found that when I am really waffling on something for a long time—past the usual design-iteration-process noodling; like when I can’t seem to press “go” on an idea—it is usually time to stop, strip everything out to the bare walls (mentally) and approach it from scratch. This room is so big and I personally am 100% on board with the internal outhouse concept, which I think is an absolute hoot. Just play with taking the tub out (FOR NOW) and see what happens!
This is totally me! My dream is to build an ADU in our backyard for my boys to come back home and stay awhile
I voted for none of these. I don’t think any are working very well.
I made a comment on the stained glass post – that perhaps you divide this very large room into two bathrooms.
Bath 1: accessible from inside the house could be a more traditional bathroom with a vanity, toilet, tub(?) shower.
Bath 2: accessible from the outside could house the toilet (in an ADA compliant space) and the urinal. Two “stalls” if you will; each could be their own “outhouse”. Also, wall mount sink – perhaps the Kohler Brockway, which I think could work well with your vision.
This is a great idea. The current designs feel both too crowded and too empty – this would solve that problem
I hear you and can not WAIT to show you when its done. I’m so excited for this big cool, weird bathroom that doesn’t need to function for everyday use. its a show piece to excite and delight us and our friends. its a conversation starter. Clearly its already working HAHAHAHHA
I think what is confusing many of us readers is that “cool, weird showpiece” doesn’t seem to jive with “future retirement option,” which also doesn’t jive with “high traffic family frat bathroom,” which also seems distinct from “bridal suite.” I’m curious to see how you end up balancing fun and weird with this kind of wide variety of practical needs/wants.
This is where I am stuck as well. The wants and needs are all over the place and are all competing by definition. I wouldn’t be trying to design for many years down the road for what I hope my then adult children might decide to do. There doesn’t seem to be a clear vision or purpose. I’d get clear on that first.
me, too 🙂
I don’t like any of these. All devote more space to bathing and showering than to toileting and washing up which is the opposite of how these spaces are used. I love the dual outhouses but I’d nix the tub in favor of some kind of two sink situation with ample vanity space.
I think you are on the right track with Option #1 (with/without vanity table). I’m excited for you! 🙂
And this may not be officially ADA-compliant, but if one has the ability to close/lock the two entrances to the main bathroom, then it becomes a bigger/easier space to work with for accommodations on the spot.
that’s what i’m thinking! yes both doors can lock and its honestly meant to be a single use bathroom, just a really fun/weird one. thank you Shoebad. I got one vote!
From an ADA standpoint, none of these are particularly good. ADA requires a minimum of 60×60” clear space just for the toilet, plus additional clearances for other items. Keep in mind, that’s clear floor space, so inside any tile or other all finishes. There’s a lot of other elements that go into SDA accessibility, so if you really want to go this route, please please reach out to a licensed architect who knows about accessibility requirements. Even if you don’t go fully ADA now, there are things you can do now to make modifications easier later.
thank you! i dont’ know what SDA is so i’ll look into that.
Is SDA just ADA with a typo? 😉
i do kind of love that option 2 looks like a proper outhouse vs a shed with a toilet in it
I agree with the “not quite there yet” comments. And I think the focus on compliance for rentals is muddying the waters a bit– usability for different abilities in the near term feels really important, checking a code box does not. But it feels like you are sort of conflating those? Maybe I am misreading but I’m hearing “accessibility would be great for friends and family, but since we don’t need ADA compliance, it isn’t necessary” and that doesn’t totally make sense to me.
I feel like this conversation is really showing the pros and cons of doing everything for a big audience — lots of good perspective, but perhaps taking the joy out of an idea you are excited about, which a private homeowner could have just executed and enjoyed (even if some of the choices end up having downsides). Personally, I think the feedback on functional (not regulatory) accessibility & experience is helpful to listen to — like, truly, please not the face urinal. But I hope you can find a way to solve for those without losing the joy you get from this idea!
“please, not the face urinal” seems like a reasonable request. haha. ok so no joy is being sucked out of this for me at all yet, i promise, but I totally agree that its all being conflated. it really is a flex bathroom – maybe future permanent dwellers, for sure for my team who will work upstairs. For sure for guests. its too big of a space not to break it up and yet we have other rooms that can be storage, etc. So this is a big fun fantasy bathroom and I’m having so much fun, regardless. I do love the audience here. no one is being mean-spirited, just opinionated which I love.
Glad the joy is still there! I think what is confusing me is that your near term use cases seem like they would be best served with an accessible situation, but it sounds like you are considering that as a “nice to have” bc it isn’t necessary for compliance. But I don’t really understand what compliance has to do with it, if it’s about how it functions for everyone who might use the space now. That said, as someone else pointed out, wheelchair use may not be the thing to solve for in an upstairs bathroom anyway. Idk, I am not an accessibility expert! Just wasn’t quite following the logic on what you are prioritizing & why.
But anyway, the whole idea is fun and creative, and I’m looking forward to seeing how you end up executing it!
Yeah, I don’t understand the wording around accessibility. If you want an accessible space, follow the ADA design guidelines. They’re on the ADA website. They’re also in the NKBA Kitchen and Planning Guidelines, which is a fantastic and cheap little book with all the recommended clearances, etc. You can’t fudge those guidelines just because you’re not a government or commercial space but still say the space is accessible.
Who is going to take a bath here? This project sounds like a special, highly-designed public restroom.
why would it be public? not public at all! if one of my kids moves in with their young family they’ll need a bath or perhaps if Brian and I want to live here and let them have the big house then I’d need a bath. There is enough room we are making it a full bathroom for my fantasy life that will likely never really happen.
With love, we all think it’s function is a public restroom because you say that you want to use it as the main bathroom for your big neighborhood parties, companies that shoot at your house, and you talk about potentially hosting retreats and weddings and events in the future. That use for the house makes a lot of sense for us readers who have read here forever. The space makes A TON of sense for that use if you design it as a cool unique fun public bathroom, not a single use. You are already using your property for this first use, why not embrace it and make it truly functional and cool?
If your kids move that close to you with their young family again, don’t you think it’s just as likely that you’d put them in the upstairs where there are three bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a laundry?
I hear you. I think this project is just extra weird since as you guys put it, it could have multi-use function in the future and yet right now its just a guest house. Even when we had 100 people over for bigger gatherings everyone just used the powder room and it was fine. so we’ll now have two bathrooms as options which I think is plenty. its never going to be a huge venue, the property isn’t big enough and we have lots of direct neighbors. So yes i’m trying to design with future flexibility, but mostly I want it to be awesome and a place to have fun with some design elements that I’ve never worked with before (i.e. urinal, stained glass doors, the room within the room, etc). But its all highly untraditional and probably impractical, so I get the hesitation completely!
I truly don’t think anyone here is objecting in a “hesitation” kind of way; I’m reading everyone’s comments as different floorplans make more sense for different purposes, and when you want this bathroom to serve allll present-day and future purposes (a really cool bathroom with stalls — stalls PLURAL please! — makes zero sense with a bathroom that also needs a tub), things get really muddy real fast.
The kids could be moving in with their families in, what, 15 years minimum? Wouldn’t you want to redesign things at that point anyways, either to work for you and Brian full time or a young family full time?
Now that it’s mentioned, yes, urinals are gross and I don’t enjoy seeing them. So, my vote goes to option 2 so only the dudes need to see/use the urinal. And the two little outhouses in symmetry are so cute. I also think the vanity by the window doesn’t need plumbing, it can just be a “get ready” area.
In my opinion, the biggest issue with the combined urinal/toilet space was that it’s such a waste of time to have them combined, when only one item will be used at a time. The line for this bathroom will be so long when used as an event space – and could be cut in half by separating them into 2 separate spaces. Option 3 moves in the wrong direction, since now you’ll have to wait even longer for the bathroom to be free, since you’ll need to wait for someone to wash hands/fix hair/etc when that could be a separate space.
I also agree with other commenters on the bathtub – what is the possible use case where a bathtub would be used in this space? Bridal party – no; event space – no; kid’s space – no. Even if there is a time when it may be used, an extra bathroom stall would be used way more. And maybe one could be accessible and the other not?
Guests could use both the soake pool or the ice bath if they really felt the need to have a bath!
I appreciate this! I have lots of rebuttals (not an event space, like if we go that route it would be very small weddings and we have multiple bathrooms in the house). So we really don’t need to think about lines. and the possiblity of someone actually living here full time means we need a tub (and we have the space). Plus they are so pretty 🙂
I’m leaning toward Option #2: Double Outhouse for a practical reason – if someone is using the toilet, they probably wouldn’t appreciate a second person opening the door to access the urinal. Separate rooms would give everyone a bit more privacy and make the space function more comfortably.
One small idea that might help with wayfinding: each door could have a vintage-style brass sign that says “Toilet” and “Urinal.” That way, people wouldn’t have to open multiple doors to find what they need.
Of course, if the intent is for the structure to function more like a detached guest bathroom, especially with the large bathtub, then Option #1 probably makes the most sense since it allows for a more open layout.
yes! we were going to put a brass sign regardless as I could see our friends being like ‘where am I?’ so yes to the signs 🙂
With all your parties and big gatherings, Option 2 would allow for two people to use the facilities at a time. I have thought about doing this at my house (minus the urinal ; ) because I host 20 – 30 people often. Speaking of men loving urinals, I never saw my teenage son so excited as when he came from the men’s room at a hotel in LA where men have a ~window~ urinal to pee ON with city views.
I think option 3 does have the cutest look when you open the doors, but I also still prefer option 1. Out of curiosity any reason to not have the outhouse extend/shift all the wall to the wall? Is it so that it looks more like a separate structure? It looks like the gap between the outhouse and wall would create a gap 13.5 inches by 52 inches, which seems like it would be super annoying to clean. If you reclaim that space you could make things less cramped in the outhouse or have a bigger sink.
If the bathroom is on the second floor, how can it be ADA compliant? Is there a plan for an elevator? Maybe I missed this discussion in an earlier post.
This bathroom is not on the second floor. There is an additional original bathroom on the second floor.
Also this has nothing to do with the design, but the Amsterdam airport added urinal targets as a psychological nudge back in the 90s. They found there was a 50-80% reduction in “spillage”. Which is just….ha. Even funnier is the number of studies done since then trying different nudge methods to get men to be less gross with urinal hygiene.
Grab bars are just as, if not more important than space for a wheelchair if you are thinking of accessibility. Making sure there is adequate blocking in the wall to add them is something to think about during the build. I have seen grab bars that don’t look institutional.
It’s SO easy to add the blocking during construction. There’s no reason not to. (Source: currently have a gutted bathroom with blocking in place.)
ooh good idea!
I don’t think I have EVER commented but I see the vision! As a Mom of two boys, they would be stoked. And, I think the idea of a room inside a room is super magical! The idea of a urinal next to the toilet just doesn’t gross me out. Just wanted to voice support since it seems like I might be in the minority?
OMG thank you Brook!!!!!! Bless you 🙂 My team is also super excited (but they’ve experienced the space in person which is I think the missing factor).
Want to second the feeling that the options aren’t quite there yet, with a bit of historical context added:
The inspiration bathroom is drawing on Victorian English sanitary ware and Southern English bathing (as in, get dressed to go swimming) tents from a similar period, which means tiled surfaces and fun stripes used by a small family, all good.
You’ve got a farmhouse outbuilding (at least it is now that you’ve built your ‘main’ home) and its most frequent use case seems to be guests at outdoor events or friends/employees using the main space (realistically, a lot of semi-strangers relieving themselves rather than bathing). Which means you’ve got raw wood and stained glass and a urinal in the mix, with the added dimension that the people who use the room aren’t the ones cleaning it.
And while I can see nostalgia for a bathing tent, I’m not so sure everyone is as hot for a small room full of wood and pee (because small stalls will always trap and recirculate particulates – for hours after they’re used!!!)
I love your comment for many reasons. Spot on. For the record, “small room full of wood and pee” is going to be my new phrase for a hot mess 😅
OH dear. yes i’m not going for a “small room full of wood and pee”. the flooring isn’t going to be wood if that helps. Its going to be carpet tiles (JUST KIDDING). 🙂
Ahh… April Fool’s Post… can’t wait 😂
Seems like a fun, grow with the family bathroom to me! You could always remove the outhouse later, if needed. An outdoor outhouse would require insulation. I don’t think I’d want it to have pipes out there if it were me… unless it was a little more… an outdoor shower AND urinal may not be a bad plan though. Just winterize it for a few months, maybe? I know how muddy freshly rained on yards can become with animals and kids from spring through fall though!
I agree with a lot of the commenters – it seems like the entire layout is crowded yet empty. Why don’t you create a separate wet room with a roll-in shower and a tub, separate from the outhouses? I would feel so exposed in the bathtub the way it’s laid out now (I guess because I can’t figure out if you’re designing for public use vs private use) If bridal parties are getting ready there, it still feels like there isn’t enough privacy for using the potty (iykyk) and you don’t have a long vanity with makeup lights, etc anyway. And talking about ADA compliance for a decade into the future – well, by then, who knows what will be available and what new thing you may want to design by that point? I voted #2 because I think, at the end of the day, you’re going to use the toilets mostly for parties, and this allows two unrelated people to use the facilities at the same time. But even that option still feels like the entire space is a private room for people to feel comfortable walking in around the same time and they will just be confused over… Read more »
I vote for none of the above.
While reading the post, option number three made the most sense for me in terms of where I would wanna pee, but looking at the layout I think you should take the Doublewide outhouse with the sink inside and move it to the south wall.
You would still have a moment coming in the exterior door, and I think it would make the flow in the room i.e. getting around the deep outhouse inch box feel easier,
How are the ‘outhouse’ spaces vented?
ooh good question …. should probably think about that!
Hi! I work in commercial interior design and I think you may need to review the ADA compliance more if the property is considered commercial once rented out (there may be different codes/rules than typical commercial properties).
While your diagram shows clearances for a toilet within a partition style restroom, your toilet room will be completely enclosed and if you are including a sink inside that room, you’ll need a 60″ diameter clearance, so it would need to be much larger, you can find diagrams online or in UpCodes.
Another issue you may run into in the future are grab bars, there are specific dimensions of where those need to be located to be ADA compliant and you will need to build the walls with proper backing to support that weight, something to keep in mind if you’re planning on adding those in the future, easier to add the backing now than in the future. In addition, in 10-15 years some of the codes may have changed so you’ll need to revisit again anyways, maybe better to do the design you love and not worry about ADA compliance right now. Love the blog–always enjoy your posts!
In terms of accessibility/need for a bathtub, it’s more likely your kids will be living here with babies than anyone’s parents needing to stay for lengths of time – and perhaps any one of them (or you) needing mobility aids? (If a shower is big enough you can put a baby tub in it, can you not?)
Would you consider removing the bathtub? Seems like that would give you more flexibility.
I think the idea of a urinal is cooler than actually having one. From experience, urinals, when used consistently, get backed up often, smell, leak and create more mess around the urinal than you would think. They are actually very gross. If you were going to do a urinal, it really should be in its own space, closed off from the toilet and the rest of the bathroom.
Urinals are just kind of useless actually. Guys can pee anywhere, anyhow…let’s be honest! Hahaha. Having two toilets is a far better choice in terms of practicality. A urinal can look cool I guess, but are urinals a true design choice??? I don’t know?! I would vote for two toilets if the space permits. One standard and one ADA compliant.
if you are truly looking to be ADA compliant, look into the clearances further. You are not there yet, as I don’t think any of these are truly accessible for a wheelchair.
Option 1 is ideal with divider wall. Option 2 is super cute but I agree the sink area is too tight. I really hope you do Option 1 with the additional vanity under window across the room because that room could really use a larger sink/vanity area. If you end up renting this space in the future, could you consider adding an ADA compliant bathroom somewhere else in the vicinity? Does every bathroom need to be ADA compliant, or can you have one that’s compliant to satisfy any code requirements for public access spaces? Worth researching.
My parents have a urinal and toilet in their primary bathroom. They built 25 years ago and my dad really wanted the urinal. Both are next to each other in their own toilet room. I have never once thought it was weird or gross that they’re right next to each other. Public urinals are gross but a urinal at your house is clean. Not a big deal at all and definitely not worth separate spaces.
I keep wondering if you need the bathtub! I would rather see more room for the sink, or double sinks! Since you have the enclosed toilet/urinal and you like to have parties, I think that more than one person may be in the bathroom at once, like public toilets. More space for washing hands could be helpful!
I was the caregiver for my Dad (who was in a wheelchair) before he passed. We had built a guest unit that was ADA compliant and it was such a blessing that when the unexpected happened (a terminal cancer diagnosis) we could immediately move my Dad in and care for him. I am for eliminating the tub (not ADA compliant) and creating a zero barrier shower (36” wide is ADA compliant) and it was so helpful to have the handheld on the wall so we could use a shower seat (it makes cleaning the shower so easy too!). For the toilet, you want to be able to transfer from the wheelchair to the toilet (a quick google search says 56”). Our guest unit is off our garden and we’re near the beach so we just tiled the whole space and put in a colored concrete floor. We added fun floor to ceiling cubbies around Kohler’s Brockway sink on the opposite wall. It provides space for people to set things down and so much storage to make everything accessible (guest items like a first aid kit, guest towels, I even have a container of hair elastics there and my friends always… Read more »
Would love to see pics of that! sounds great!
I think part of the challenge here is that your readers, seemingly mostly women, only encounter urinals in public bathroom situations and they are usually super gross/cringey. This will be your family space and so it will inherently be much cleaner (and as a mom of two boys, let me just say, we’re all fooling ourselves if we don’t realize our boys are constantly getting pee all over these toilet seats, which we then sit on). My point being, this will be so clean compared to a “typical” urinal and your real challenge is to figure out what makes it pretty. So go with what you love most, and prove us all wrong! 🙂 Can’t wait to see the final product!
It’s really hard to design a space to meet so many possible needs — it ends up meeting none of them well. Good design is where form meets function. A well-designed space needs to meet the needs of its users. Otherwise, it’s art.
I think you need to narrow down what you see as the use for this space. That will help the design come together and cohere better. And it doesn’t limit creativity or fun. I actually think it’s more fun to design within a few constraints.
“It’s really hard to design a space to meet so many possible needs — it ends up meeting none of them well. Good design is where form meets function.” THIS is exactly what I was trying to say in an earlier comment
I did not vote. Mom of two boys…the urinal needs to have tile surround and a drain in the floor to hose it out, so it needs its own outhouse room.
Have you thought of putting another door on the exterior that leads to a urinal out house room (with small sink)? Take space from the bathroom to make a separate men’s/boys bathroom with the exterior door? Then the bathroom with shower/tub vanity with a proper sink and a beautiful toilet closet would make more sense. It would be a private bathroom for potential parents/adult children and an party bathroom
I was raised with 3 brothers, and I raised 2 sons. They do not care where they pee. Urinals are good, so are bushes and trees. BUT, if the urinal is indoors, then the urinal and toilet need immediate access to a sink. Women need a sink sometimes when they are changing tampons and pads and need to immediately wash their hands. No one wants to walk around with blood on their hands. And males will not wash their hands unless the sink is right there next to them. And, as has already been said, I so do not want to sit at a toilet and be at the same height as pee flying by into the urinal. Urinals smell, they do not always get flushed, those deodorizers that sit in them are stinky–really, I do not want to share space with urinals and men’s toileting habits. How about two outhouses, one with a urinal and sink, and one with a toilet and a sink? A shower, and a vanity table with a mirror complete the space. And if there is raw wood on the floor, very summer campy, it will absorb urine and smell. Love the idea of an… Read more »
THIS is perfect. Carving out a standalone urinal room with access only from the exterior. Fully tiled, with floor drain, handheld bidet spray (to hose the space down) and a small sink. That could also change the shape of the proper bathroom and help layout the space better.
Love this! My vote is for option #2 with the amended larger sink/ vanity under the window. Let’s face it, the most used part of a bathroom is the toilet, so having 1 or 2 people in their private ‘outhouse’ while others simultaneously use the sink/ vanity is a great use of space for both intended purposes. I have 2 boys and a husband and when given the choice they always pick a urinal. So all us ladies would reap the benefits of that option, if you know what I mean? 😉
And if you’re not totally married to the idea of having a single sink in the room too, this would likely free up enough space for the second outhouse to be ADA compliant. Also, not that you asked (and not sure if head height would allow), but I think it could look really cute for the outhouses to have peaked roofs. This way they could be adjoined but also defined by the peak. And even the extra room needed for the ADA compliance could have a peak. So it would be 3 peaked structure with doors on either end but two rooms inside. If that makes sense?
Also, not sure if you’ve considered it, but by moving the door from the speakeasy to the other end of the wall (closer to the door that leads outside), you would be combining the circulation space needed for both doors AND opening up that entire length of wall that the bath and shower are currently on. This would allow for the depth needed for an ADA ‘outhouse’ (60”).
Moving that door could make the whole space much more functional.
I think eliminate tub for now, if there comes a time when you need one, you can change things around and figure out how to add it then. Design now for the next 10-15 years, not after that, would be my thought.
I like option 4 the best but I would put the sink back in the outhouse or between the two doors on the outside of the outhouse and I would try to figure out how to put the tub under the window. XO