It’s an ‘Ask the Audience’ day, except less about trim colors and more about the fate of our country and all our children. Waking up this morning was pretty horrifying for many of us. And staring at two tiny children who want to build rockets out of legos with their mama and dada for two hours when we both just wanted to cry and cry was quite the challenge. Like many of us I don’t have the words. I don’t understand. I just keep thinking “WHY???” and “HOW???”
We all live in these bubbles of people who are just like us. Nobody I know personally voted for Trump, unless they are shielding me from that truth. But 50% of Americans did and many of you are in that category, right? So in the spirit of learning, understanding, engaging, and processing I’d love to hear from any of you who voted for Trump. I’d love to know why. Because the story that is in my head is a very dark one. Is it because of the economy? Immigration? Because you like him? Because you really don’t like Hillary? My uber driver told me he voted for Trump because he didn’t think that a woman would be respected internationally. That shocked me for sure, but was still enlightening as to why someone would not vote for her.
Since I know that most of my audience is on the liberal side, I challenge all of you to converse respectfully and to really try to understand because that is all we can do at this point. We are stronger together but right now we feel pretty divided. I want to understand so I can help. My bubble could use some breaking and I’d love to invite inside of that bubble, people who can help clarify why you would vote for this man, despite his faults.
Hopefully I won’t regret this. And we do have a design post planned for today, if I can pull myself out of this haze to finish writing it.
So folks, why did you vote for Trump? And what are going to be the hopefully positive outcomes of a Trump presidency? I genuinely really would like to know so I, too, can muster more hope for us.
*Please, for those of you who are as disappointed as I am, use this as an opportunity to promote hope over hate and listen instead of shaming – If it gets out of hand I will pull this post down. Let’s TRY to figure out how to move forward together and learn from this experience as Americans (and yes, you don’t have to leave your real name – it can be absolutely anonymous).
Did not vote for Trump but just wanted to chip in say you are both brave/crazy. Hoping this can start a healing conversation or just remain civil. Must say, I have low expectations.
Ditto what Alex said. And thank you for speaking out — and for bravely/crazily trying to engage, Emily. I am heartbroken and immobilized with grief. I know we’ve got to move forward and to never lose faith on a kind, just, responsible society. But living in a conservative area (hello, Orange County) where many of my colleagues are high-fiving each other, I feel divided in my heart from my neighbors. Deep breath. Growth is rarely linear. I will try to believe in this country and in humanity, still.
BE the change you want. Use YOUR mouth to act the talk the way you want to be spoken to. use the legs God gave you to go out into the world and live how you want the world to live. That’s it. Don’t have low expectations or you will spread bitterness. Try constantly to be better than that.
I totally agree. It doesn’t matter if you are Democrat or Republican. I look around and see a bunch of adults complaining about the world we live in, before the election, even. I say, get out from behind your computers, put down your cell phone, get out of your house and GO HELP!! Especially, for me, help children. Be a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Girl Scout, or Brownie leader. Big a Big Brother or Big Sister. Call your local hospital and volunteer to help hold the crack babies. Go to an “Old Folks Home” or a VA hospital and volunteer!! HELP change your world and your attitude will be better and you WILL CHANGE THE WORLD!
I am very anti-Trump, and so disappointed in the results of this election, but I think that part of the problem is assumption on the part of liberals that everything we do is growth, without inviting both sides into the conversation. I think the reason why we were so blindsided is because we operate on the idea that everything we do is “progress” without stopping to truly consider and listen to other view points with respect rather than just jumping to the assumption that they are narrow-minded or bigots. I think this is a wake-up call to us to widen our definition of what growth and progress are for our country. Half of the country surely cannot be hate-driven fear-mongrels. These (I think) are good people who do honest work and genuinely also want the best for our country.
This is a wonderful viewpoint. Thank you.
This is an amazing comment. I love it, it’s so true, and it’s so hard to have this kind of introspection. Kudos.
I could not agree with this more. It’s one helluva wake-up call to see how divided we are. But clearly it’s a wake-up call that we needed. And now we need to learn from it and grow from it. Hopefully together.
This is a beautiful sentiment Erica.
Erica, thank you – this is beautiful and so true
Wonderful viewpoint- I’m a moderate conservative and this is my biggest beef with my liberal friends- they assume I think like they do and anyone who disagrees is an uneducated moron. I truly think this time around it was more about the trade deals that have hurt people in certain areas of the country.
I too am a moderate conservative, or as I like to call it, social liberal, fiscal conservative. Your comment is everything I feel. I vote on economic issues and international policy – social issues will move along with or without a president’s support. Eight years ago, Obama said marriage should be between a man and a woman, and during his presidency that issue has evolved drastically. I am tired of people on the far left (and some on the right) saying that those of us who voted for Trump are racists or uneducated. I have a Masters degree and a CPA license, I am not uneducated. But Trump still appealed to me for many many reasons, and I’m tired of liberals being prejudiced against me as a result. Prejudice comes in many forms, and today I’ve felt it from those who proclaim to “love all people” and “be open minded”. Thank you for not being one of those people, Emily.
Also, if you are a podcast listener, I recommend you check out the Cracked podcast’s episode from about a month ago called “Trump Country”. It’s led by two liberals who self-proclaimed during that episode that they will not be voting for Trump, but they did a FANTASTIC job delving into some of the demographic issues that have led to the support for a candidate like Trump. It was insightful and actually helped me put into words the gut feeling I’d had in the Midwest since the day Trump first started looking like a realistic candidate.
I’m the same as you politically. I have friends of all types and knew people who voted for each candidate. Because I have a master’s degree my liberal friends think
I’m the same as them and I’ve always felt that I could never share my beliefs without being condemned and called names. I’m not a racist, bigot, or any of the above…I’m adopting from Honduras for goodness sakes, but my beliefs have stayed hidden and never discussed bc I never liked arguing.
To echo so many excellent comment already made and show agreement with them, my view of effective government is to address economics and foreign policy in a fiscally responsible manner, putting the best interests of our country first. Legislating behavior and social issues should not be the main role of government – we the people, on the ground and in our communities, set that tone. I hold a master’s degree and find far more prejudice in my outspoken liberal friends that assume I agree with them and ridicule others who don’t, belittling the very people who serve the disenfranchised through their church’s soup kitchens and outreach programs. Not saying either side is perfect, there just needs to be a lot more understanding of each other’s view point.
The best comment I’ve read all year. Bravo!
I would still love to hear what those many reasons were, though. I guess really hearing some specifics would be helpful in trying to understand how life looks from your perspective.
Bless you Erica and your sweet, sweet heart. My vote was a vote against Hillary and her liberal ideologies which I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with. I’m someone who wants people to like me, and so sticking up for my conservative values among the liberal trends of today is scary for me but I do it. I was once extreme liberal and spent over a year and a half, while kid-free aka had the time, researching issues because I felt I was not well-informed. I looked at everything I could get my hands on right and left (I was a total nerd those 2 years, I’ll admit) and ended up with a change of heart and became conservative. We have so much to learn from each other. It breaks my heart to see that less than 24 hours after the results, so many liberals and media have already attributed his victory to racism, sexism and bigotry. Bless people like you and Emily Henderson who keep an open mind and heart. ❤️
So many of us “lefties” and the left leaning media have attributed his victory to people who don’t think sexism, racism and xenophobia are a deal breaker. That is deeply concerning to me as woman who is married to a Mexican man. What will happen to my husband during this presidential term? What obstacles will he face because the majority of the country thinks he doesn’t deserve to live here, despite him being born here, his mother being born here and Mexico not even being a memory in their lives? I think one thing that is incredibly frustrating for me is to see conservatives think of being called a misogynist or a racist as an insult equivalent to calling someone a dummy. It’s not an insult, it’s an adjective used to describe someone who is actively prejudiced against specific types of people. Stop being so condescending and telling Emily and everyone else “bless their heart”. How can you not see that so many people are actually terrified because they don’t know what will happen to them under Donald’s reign? Will I lose my healthcare? How many times will my husband be pulled over for being brown? Will he have to… Read more »
I voted for neither Trump or HRC, but instead for Evan McMullin. It is the first time in five presidential elections that I haven’t voted for the Republican nominee. I applaud your comment, Erica, because I can see honesty and truth in it, for the conservative and liberal alike (and everyone in-between). Let’s LISTEN to each other, and move forward with respect for each other. We cannot move forward with hate and anger.
Thank you for this Erica
YES
Another moderate conservative (voted for Johnson) here chiming in to say brava, Erica! The Obama years have not been rainbows and butterflies for lots of people. The lack of inclusion by the liberals regarding conservative thought is astounding. If liberals truly want to be inclusive (as they claim to be) they must include conservatives without name-calling (I.e., racist, uneducated, deplorable). Many conservatives are sick of not being welcome in discussions about progress. We conservatives are not comfortable sharing our views with liberals for fear of being labeled a bigot so many of us stay quiet. We must all work together and at least listen to one another if we hope to move ahead.
Claire, I agree with your point that liberals need to be more inclusive. But the ‘name calling’ issue is another matter. Trump has repeatedly espoused racist rhetoric in a public forum. This is undeniable and should not be minimized. And so by supporting his leadership you are sending a very public message that the racist undertones of his agenda are acceptable to our society. It’s a “guilty by association” predicament, and regardless of the fact that you (or other Trump supporters) are in fact racist in your personal life, there’s an inherent connection you’re communicating by entrusting him to represent you.
To clarify I meant to say regardless of the fact that you are [or are not] a racist…
Perhaps conservatives are left out of the conversation because they choose so base their belief system on a archaic notion of gods and temples rather than science, facts or truth? I have no interest in arguing right to choose with someone who’s only idea of right and wrong comes from a book written way before humans even knew the world was round. If you need a book to figure out basic right and wrong then you got bigger problems than liberals.
Thank you. You nailed it in about 1/20th of the words it took me to say it & ..far less eloquently than you.
Well said, Erica. Exactly.
I have been trying to wrap my brain around why someone would willingly vote for Trump. I have never heard of Emily, but a friend posted a link to this post and said I should check out the comments. I have to say with all the respect I can muster, just no. Every explanation is Liberal Vs. Conservative and a “moderate” piping in from time to time. When we start a conversation, and we start with boxing people in to these terms, I shut down. Allowing a platform for privilege to vocalize their pain and hurt via their liberal friends who are suffering post their decision to color in his bubble on their voting slip, perpetuates the very culture that now has him as a president. I honestly just can’t. I can’t a few days post the election. If people are closed minded and not open to hearing someone out who isn’t as progressive or ready for change, look at their reasons. I am a gay woman and I’m married to a Mexican-American woman, and my daughter is black. We are here today, we matter, and this discussion further reinforces even laced in rainbow and butterfly pleasantries, why my family… Read more »
Wow. You got me thinking about americas imperialism and how parallels can be made between imperialism and liberal/intellectuals meaning well with our progress, but discounting bigots as “other”.
Erica, you are great.
Fantastic comment.
As a liberal, who’s grown up in a liberal bubble, I want to bridge the gap.
This as so well said.
This Orange County neighbor feels the same way you do. It’s like being in mourning – the sadness, fear, anger. But there is a glimmer of hope in the fact that for the first time in years Orange County turned blue.
Hi Emily,
While I did not vote for Trump, my parents did. I tearfully called my mom this morning and asked her how she came to that decision.
My mom explained to me that although she does not like Trump as a person, and she does not condone his sexist/misogynistic/racist/hateful behaviour, she felt strongly that her vote should align with the Republican party, the party that most closely represents her beliefs. My parents are small business owners, and have always believed in small government. The past eight years have made them fed up with politicians, and (in their eyes) a corrupt, ineffective government.
Later on in our conversation I was getting a bit more belligerent and frustrated, and I began referencing pussies being grabbed, etc. She responded by mostly blaming the media for exaggerating this type of “locker room” rhetoric. She feels that Trump is a narcissist who says things without thinking, and the sexist jargon doesn’t align with his actions. She used his relationship to his children, especially Ivanka, to back this argument up.
Today I am sad, embarrassed, and disappointed in our country. I would like to continue respectful dialogue to better understand WHY.
Please do your research and you will find evidence of Bill Clintons multiple cases of misconduct with women including rape from back when he was governor to while he was president and after he left office. You will find evidence of Hilary’s degradation of these women that her husband abused as well as her own misconduct as a lawyer representing a rapist against a 12 year old girl who after she got off on technicalities she laughed about it. Question a lawyer who loses her license which Hillary, bill and both obamas have done. Hillary put our countries security at risk as well as our men and women that put their lives on the line for us. The Clintons repeatedly broke the law and felt like they were above it. While you do your research on the Clintons, something everyone should have done on their own versus letting the media tell us what they thought we needed to know or not know, pay very close attention to the clinton foundation and every one that donated to her campaign. When you have done your research you might want to call your mom back and apologize for your complete and total ignorance… Read more »
I recommend you too do your research. One glaring inaccuracy – Only Bill Clinton was disbarred (after the Monica Lewinsky scandal – not something to defend) Hillary and the Obamas let their licenses lapse, which is a choice and very different than “losing” their license.
Mary – can I ask what sources are you using in your Clinton Foundation research? I go out of my way to get my news from as many sources/perspectives as possible, but evidently we are reading very different versions of the story. I am genuinely curious. Thanks.
The New York Times (liberal audience) and
The Drudge Report (syndicated, conservative audience). Aaron, Here is an article that really made me look further into the actions of the Clinton Foundation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0
Another major topic to research is ‘Haiti Relief’ after the 2010 earthquake. There are many sources.
Check out the wiki leaks e mails dumped 2 weeks before election and google FBI investigations into Clinton foundation. She set up the server illegally to evade the freedom of information acts that could subpoena her documents. She destroyed them and scrubbed the server (she thought) at best she was incompetent but it is clear to me that she was criminal in her actions.
So glad you kept it kind and civil.
Neither of the Obama’s ever ‘lost their license to practice law’ – this is a myth propagated by opponents. Check out the truth on http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/the-obamas-law-licenses/.
Larger issue is that people often believe what they want to believe and are easily misled by false information circulated as truth (happens on both sides).
But, as Maya Angelou said, when somebody, such as our president-elect, himself makes the derisive comments about groups and actions he plans to take, we need to believe him. Many of us are frightened by this thought.
Should clarify, I am a responding to another Mary (should have used a different name…)
Very true, Mary. Unfortunately, now the mainstream media outlets are owned/controlled by a few. True investigative reporting is discouraged and whistle blowers are no longer protected. It is a lot of work to truly stay informed. You have to access multiple independent media sources to get a good understanding of the truth. It takes much time and is often disheartening.
Bill did lose his license, but the Obama’s and Hillary never did, check your facts.
Ok, I was reading your comment thoughtfully, but then I read your last sentence. That is out of line. Very rude.
So you assume that people who disagree with you are “totally ignorant?” Boo.
Mary,
Hilary did not laugh at the 12 year old girl who was raped.
Please read here:
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-freed-child-rapist-laughed-about-it/
Actually, she did. Listen to the audio for yourself at the bottom of the link http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/06/20/audio-hillary-clinton-laughs-while-discussing-defense-child-rapist. And snopes isn’t the best place to fact check. It’s run by a liberal husband and wife team from their home in San Francisco….neither have fact checking credentials! It’s very liberal leaning and many times inaccurate.
Well said, Mary. I would also like to add Benghazi to the list. And, if you ever saw her testimony, her sheer smugness and not taking responsibility for the 4th deaths was unconscionable. I have been following her since college and she is abhorrent. #1)Quick aside: I am Republican that believes in small government, which do the research on the debt. #2) Obama racked up more debt than all previous Presidents in office in our span of being the USA- that is a problem and look to other countries that have fallen to the crush of debt: Greece and many others. #3) Democrats lack of calling Islamic Terror for what it is and the real threat to our country. #4) Obamacare total failure and the outright lies put forth by Obama and the administration; good people lost their coverage and then were forced to seek health treatment under government guidelines; I cannot imagine someone controlling my health and telling me when and where…look to other countries that run the healthcare. England as a quick example. I went there at 19, and the people I lived with had to wait 6 months to see a Doctor for a knee problem. I’ve… Read more »
This is a very condescending way to speak to Lee. It’s disappointing, because all the comments I’ve read up to this point have actually been very civil. Here is an interview about the 12 year old rape victim she supposedly laughed at (she didn’t): http://www.npr.org/2016/11/03/500480069/the-story-behind-a-campaign-line-did-clinton-laugh-at-a-rape-victim
Mae accurately explains below that neither Hillary nor the Obamas have been disbarred.
You have a lot to say about the Clinton Foundation, but at the end of they day, they’ve helped 9 MILLLION people with HIV and AIDs, while Donald Trump will appear in court on charges of fraud in regards to his Foundation.
Actually, I’m not trying to condemn you in any way but the Obamas did not lose their law licenses. When he decided to run for President, they both voluntarily surrendered their licenses for obvious reasons (he was running). HRC also did not lose her license. This is completely false.
Bill Clinton lost his right to practice in AR but was never disbarred.
Just want to ensure you also have your research in check. It happens to be a point very often argumented incorrectly. However, anyone look into it and find that the claims are untrue.
Mary, Emily asked why you voted for Trump. Really, are these the reasons?
I suggest you do your research before spreading more untruths. Neither Bill, Hillary, or either of the Obamas were “lost their law licenses.” It costs thousands of dollars per year in fees and continuing legal education to maintain an active license in each state in which you are admitted. Most lawyers who aren’t litigating or advising clients have no reason to do so, and will go inactive. That’s what Hillary, Michele, and president Obama have done. And Bill agreed to a suspension in connection with the Monica Lewinsky investigation. This is not the same as losing a license.
Hillary was never accused of misconduct when she represented the alleged rapists – who, by the way, she was required by the judge to represent. She did her job; the state lost the case by losing critical evidence.
You can find all this through any reputable news source or even snopes.
Except you got all your information from rightwing sites. I am so tired of this double standard. But Commander in Chief pussy grabber is just fine with you. Double standard.
And everyone going on about being persecuted for their conservative beliefs seems to have completely forgotten what is was like to dare be proud of your progressive beliefs under Bush. The vitriol and hate was shocking to me. You were un American if you dared say anything against him or his policies. But now everyone is proud of voting for a racist, sexist, ignorant and hateful demigod, and they still feel they’re being persecuted. Cognative dissonance at its finest. But hey the boys at my kids school yelling grab them by the poussy to the girls, are just boys being boys. Hey they can even be president!
perfectly said, Shannon.
Well put Mary. I was raised conservative but tend to have more liberal views regarding abortion (pro-choice because not everyone’s situation is the same but appalled by late term or partial birth abortions), pro-LGBT rights but I’m also in the military so I am very pro-guns but also am appalled at how easy it is for criminals to get guns so I’m all for gun reform. I’d say I balance out in the middle but everything you just said about Hilary is what made me vote against her. As a working mother that has great maternity leave and daycare through the government as well as great insurance, I know I’m lucky compared to the rest of the country. I really liked some of her ideas in those areas so I was torn. But I kept thinking about Benghazi and the email scandal, which if I did what she did I’d be in jail and would have gone through court martial. Additionally, how are you going to debase the women that have accussed your husband all those years ago and then sit here and say that every victim of sexual assault should be heard and “we’re with you?”. Yeah no. I… Read more »
Ok, respectfully, the video about Hilary’s reaction regarding the 12 year old girl was edited and taken out of context- she was not laughing at the girl at all but in response to something else the reporter said. This is another example of how people have twisted the facts to make Hilary seem like a horrible person. And Fox News is the one who twisted that story. Sometimes the news is good but sometimes it’s not 100 percent reliable. Imho. She is a mother- why do people believe that she would act that way? You cant believe wholeheartedly what someone tells you or what you see presented a certain way. My grandmother was a well known feminist politician in the South and she knew the Clintons. They are not liars and rapists and I think it’s crazy what people will do to promote their own agenda, -and crazy what people will believe. Were you there? How do you know? I respect people’s decision to vote for whoever they want – it’s America. And thank you for being civil everyone! I was getting so depressed at seeing Trump supporters trolling all over the internet and saying things that I would never… Read more »
…ugh. this is just off. you start your comment by stating “do your research” but then among your comments you reference hillary laughing about a 12 year old girl getting raped. but if YOU do your research, you’ll hear that’s just completely off. the “laughing” you reference is in an interview where she’s talking about the case and awkwardly chuckling, uncomfortably, at the absurdity of it, and the system that allowed her to get the rapist off. it’s literally the ridiculousness of the system that she’s awkwardly chuckling at. it’s the exact opposite of what you’re claiming. the interviewer has stated he sees it that way, as has the girl’s lawyer. i could definitely see an argument where hillary needed to hold that case up as an example of a major problem in our judicial system, but that’s not what you’re saying and your comment seems to be a perfect example of what this blogger is attempting to get past.
This is not what happened with the rape trial. Do your research. Hillary was assigned the case and what is said here is not true.
I agree with your parents. The last two elections could hurt them and their small business pretty bad. It really hurt my family.
So The Bush years before the last 8 were good for who?
President Obama pulled us from the Great Depression.
Aly, Sorry but Fox News is a super conservative biased media source. No Snopes, no Fox News.
You can say you can’t use fox because it’s biased one way when the others are also clearly biased the other way. Journalist integrity it dead
I am Canadian and I have to be honest: I am baffled by the US electoral system. And by the latest election results and ESPECIALLY, by the media chaos that preceded the elections. I am thrilled to read the comments in this section because they accumulate to one of the few examples of what a calm, balanced political discussion can resemble nowadays. That being said, as a liberal, I don’t think that I will ever ever ever understand how anyone could vote for a candidate who has made such blatantly (and well-documented) sexist and racist statements, especially against women and minorities. I don’t think Hilary is a perfect angel (although, as far as the email stuff is concerned, I highly recommend listening to https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/601/master-of-her-domain-name) but I suspect that just about every politician has cut corners and made decisions that were based on ego and profit and that is unacceptable. But a politician who does not believe in equality for all is unforgivable. This is the 21st century. Are we really ok with bypassing basic human rights in favour of economics? Have we really become this self-centred?
A little background information on myself: I am a 45-year-old Mexican-American woman born to immigrant parents. They had seven children and we were very poor. Although I was born in Texas, I didn’t learn to speak English until second grade. My parents came here legally many years ago and worked hard in the fields as farm laborers. My siblings and I worked in the fields during the summers to help provide for the family. I give this background information to qualify my next comment. I don’t know Trump’s heart, whether he is racist or not. Maybe he is. But when he said that Mexico sends rapists and criminals, I didn’t take offense, because, to an extent, it is true. I didn’t take it to mean all Mexicans are rapists and criminals, but that some are. I took it to mean that having an open border is taking the risk that some of the people who come here are people who wouldn’t be allowed in otherwise. Of course a majority of the people who come here illegally are good, hardworking people. Beautiful people. And I understand their plight; in their shoes I would also come here illegally. But the problem is… Read more »
VS, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you so much for sharing a perspective that many of us don’t have. I could never put it as eloquently as you have, but I found your post quite encouraging. I voted for neither Trump, nor Clinton, (Johnson) but do consider myself a fiscal conservative (social liberal). I find that people often believe that those of us who don’t necessarily support quite so many social handouts are generally from a well-to-do background and just tight with our money, which, for me at least, is very inaccurate. As someone who grew up watching their mother work two jobs most of the time in order to put Hamburger Helper on the table, I know what people are capable of accomplishing when they are willing to work hard to improve their lives and the lives of their families. It’s really quite inspiring, and it’s what this country was built on; pure grit and determination. Big government diminishes the power of the individual by making us dependent. I’m not saying there is no room for assistance from the government at all, but sometimes I fear that people have forgotten about how adaptable, and powerful,… Read more »
Thank you for sharing this. I agree there are many good things about the welfare system and helping those in need, and having needed to participate in it for a time in my life has given me an inside perspective. But it is often taken advantage of. Those who identify with liberals have good hearts to want to care for others but there is an unhealthy dependence on government help. It’s purpose is to assist until one can move forward. It isn’t for generations to use continually and that is a major problem. I appreciated your personal viewpoint on this!
Well said
Thanks VS for sharing your story, and like others have it’s nice to have first hand experience-we can all say what you have said, but you have walked the walk!
Emily, thank you for asking in such a nice way and really taking the time to listen to people who did vote for Trump. We have a family divided, and it has been quite stressful around them, at times has been incredibly uncomfortable. My sister called up my college age daughter yesterday and attacked her for voting for Trump, which really upset her. I think everyone is entitled to their opinions and I for one am ready for a change as a small business owner. Thanks
VS, I could NOT agree with you more! I grew up on welfare and watched many of my own family members abuse the system. It became a career for them and now they think the world owes them something. I busted my butt to put myself through college and earn both a BS and a BA in four years. The system is beyond broken and I hope we can find a balance between helping others while also empowering them.
VS…yes to everything you said. This is why I voted for Trump.
VS, thank you so much for telling your story. I did not vote for Trump (or Clinton), but I respect your reasoning so much. I sometimes feel like politicians and pundits on both sides, in the name of building a base, try to argue that certain kinds of people should think the same way: all African Americans should vote this way, all immigrants or children of immigrants should vote this way, all LGBT people should vote this way, all lower class people should vote this way, all educated people should vote this way. I am a white cisgender woman from a middle class background, but I have seen some of my friends whose identity markers are not as “invisible” as mine be interpellated into a narrowly defined “automatic activism.” I don’t think it can necessarily be helped: if you’re gay, then to a certain extent you represent all gay people, for the time being anyway. Even as a woman, to some people I represent all women. (This is especially true if they don’t like something I say or do.) Your story shows how life experiences can inform people in distinct ways. I’m sure there are people with backgrounds similar to… Read more »
I am sorry, but VS’s story of women having babies to stay on welfare and receiving free phones… apocryphal. You had me going but you are a white dude troll.
Your comment was very compelling, until you used some falsehoods to support your position: the “Obama phone program” was actually passed into law by George W. Bush and enacted under his presidency (when it was known as SafeLink). The phone plans do not include data – just talk/text. Federal/state taxes do not pay for this service; it’s supported by a non-profit organization, although many phone companies do add a “universal tax” to your bill which gets contributed to the program.
Also: do you personally know someone who had a baby just to get welfare? Is it possible that someone thought the same thing about you as a single mom, or were you a special case?
OMG I love this! My husband is half Mexican and half Swedish and both of his parents are from Mexico/Sweden, and came here legally and did things the legal way. I think if he saw this comment, which he won’t because design blogs aren’t his thing, he would agree with everything you just said! His mom was a single mother in southern CA, one of the most expenesive areas in this country, and she worked multiple jobs to pay the bills and NEVER took handouts because she felt she didn’t need them. She worked, so why take free things? If my husband wanted something expensive like a gaming sytem or new shoes, she made him have a yard sale and sell his stuff so he could buy it himself. That sacrifice made him appreciate whatever he eventually bought because he had to work for it. I too and he as well, are against the handout system. Too many people abuse it and have no incentive to get off of it and of course aren’t going to bite the hand that feeds them and will continue to vote for whomever that is regardless of what they stand for .
Trump has promised to end the H1B visa and have a system to only hire American workers first, do you agree with this? Would love to have your perspective because a lot of immigrants who live and work here legally , have for years and even have families, use that system . Thank you 🙂
Thank you for sharing your story and perspective to help us better understand your vote. I found this really helpful as an outsider (Canadian) to comprehend why Americans voted the way they did.
So glad you were courageous enough to post this. Excited to see how others engage. <3
I did not vote for Trump, I felt I’d be going against my heart and beliefs in doing so. However, I did support that my husband voted for him. My husband works as a non-military contractor for the government and it is in his career’s best interest for us to have republican leaders. I don’t want to go into the hows and whys of that or start a debate but I do know that the people that I know did it for similar reasons. I am sad about the outcome for so many reasons but I believe in good people and pray that the people backing Trump can make up for what he lacks.
Thank you for sharing. That does help, honestly. xx
I don’t think electing a narcissistic misogynist president because you want to make more money helped me any. I hope you don’t have a daughter. I do, and I couldn’t elect or sit by passively if my husband wanted to elect someone president who would judge my daughter on a sliding scale as to wether she was a fat pig, or hot enough for a groping, just because I want more money in my own coffers.
Please be respectful.
Sorry, I actually thought that was respectful, and more importantly an opinion. I could have wished her fig leaf would die. I was expecting to see someone deciding to vote for Trump because they thought it was good for the country, not voting cause they thought they may get a pay hike.
Hi Katy, today is a really hard day for Clinton supporters — it honestly feels like a death in the family. We have to remember that everyone believe they are the good guy and remind ourselves that most people are doing the best they can. I don’t think members of the military (or contractors, etc.) were voting for a Republican out of greed, but because they believe that their jobs will be safe and they’ll be able to protect their families. We all vote based on what we think will be best for us. It’s hard to look at the country as something beyond our own lives. As devastated as I am by the result, as sickened as I am by the rhetoric of this election, we have to stay empathetic. There are people who voted for Trump because they hold discriminatory beliefs, but there are also people who voted for Trump because they are scared for theirs and their families’ futures.
Thanks Ashley, I had actually gotten to a better place, but that took me back. For me Hillary wasn’t the other candidate, she was my dream candidate for 20 years. It makes me so sad to think this place in history won’t be hers. More importantly it makes me ashamed to think of the Obamas handing over the office to the Trumps, it is a slap in the face. In other words, it is too soon for me to engage. I need to chant some more mantras or something. Again, thanks for kindly bringing me a bit back!
Thank you Ashley for your open mind, that is very true for the people I know here in the Midwest. I am a democrat that has a background in environmental conservation and education in third world countries, married to a republican working for the department of defense. Understanding perspective keeps me sane.
I actually don’t think that we should just be voting for what is best for ‘me’, ‘my family’ and ‘people like me.’ We should be voting for what is best for the most people and the country as a whole and long term health as growth. This me me me culture put minorities in danger, and people’s possessions and ‘right’ to carry weapons that kill are NEVER more important than someone’s life. It is also really upsetting to someone who is not American to realize how much the American people have been uneducated about their own system. The poorest people in rural areas (his demographic) will be hurt the most by his policies. No Obama couldn’t fix a very broken system in 8 years, but at least he was working towards long term change and a solution. Trump is going backwards and we will continue to watch disparity grow.
A pay hike? No, he just wants to keep his job. And as someone working to defend our country he does believe that what he voted was what’s best for our country because he is not the only one who does this kind of work. Trust me I get why you are upset but please don’t be presumptious or cruel. It wasn’t easy for me to accept that this was his decision, but it was his to make and I respect it and try to have an open mind. Also, I do have a daughter who is loved dearly. I cried quietly in my car this morning for both my children just like so many of you have. I also work hard for them everyday at my own job and do a lot for my community in the hopes that I can be a good example. I know that the vast majority of people voted for him for political reasons DESPITE the ignorant comments he has made and the terrible things he has done and certainly not because of them. Trump may be sexist and racist but please don’t forget that he didn’t create sexism or racism. People that have… Read more »
Thanks for such a thoughtful and calm response Lisa.
Lisa, thank you for your thoughtful, articulate perspective. As a Canadian, I – along with everyone I know up here – am reeling, and having a hard time understanding how so many Americans could vote for what’s amounted to a moral dumpster fire. It’s so refreshing to have a reminder that for many the vote wasn’t for Trump – was actually in spite of Trump – but in the service of the Republican values that do align with their beliefs.
Just because we didn’t create racism and sexism does not mean we should support it. We need to be better. I’m so so disheartened by this, ‘well that’s how lots of people talk or feel’. If that’s true we should be doing everything we can to change that, NOT supporting it or sitting there doing nothing.
As a military officer, who has been in combat several times, I am truly scared for what position he will be putting our military in. We do not need to enter into any more conflicts and I feel his brash personality/temperament will definitely lead to more conflicts. I’m also extremely nervous about his relationship with Russia. As a woman who has worked 8 times as hard as the men to get to the position I am in (one of only 4 women ever have the job I’m in) I am truly saddened and completely disheartened for all women, but mostly for young women, I really feel his policies and personality/thoughts towards women will set us back 30 years from all the progress we have made.
I’m sorry, but my husband is a Marine. What you’re invoking is that Republicans are more interested in wars and spending money on the military industrial complex than Democrats. Your husband makes his living off that dynamic. So does mine.
He also joined the military to defend our freedom, and I’m sure that your husband has similar motivations. However, your argument is that your husband voted for Trump because Trump will provide him with a job and with a paycheck. I know many members of the military voted for Trump for ideological reasons and because they are ‘hawks’, in that they believe in a proactive defense of our nation and our values. Fine.
But please. You’re admitting that your husband voted for, as you put it, a sexist and a racist, for job security. You’re more than welcome to put your economic interests above all else (and I will decline to get more specific lest I devolve), but that’s what you are both doing. Don’t pretend otherwise.
Lisa, have younor your husband read the information Trump had released for his first hundred days in office? It includes an immediate hiring freeze on all federal employees. It is quite possible that agencies will drop contractors in an effort to save the civvies.
Katy I’m in the same boat. Unlike most college students I know, I supported Hillary from the beginning and truly respected and admired her for so many reasons. I looked forward to having a female president and I wanted it to be her, but I don’t think I realized how important it was to me. I’m absolutely devastated and having such a hard time understanding the other side at this point.
Katy, I’m in the same boat. Unlike most college students I know, I supported Hillary from the beginning and truly respected and admired her for so many reasons. I looked forward to having a female president and I wanted it to be her, but I don’t think I realized how important it was to me. I’m absolutely devastated and having such a hard time understanding the other side at this point.
“I am sad about the outcome for so many reasons but I believe in good people and pray that the people backing Trump can make up for what he lacks.”
I’ll be carrying that with me, Lisa. Thanks for your thoughtful words. Stay strong. Respect to your husband as well.
I don’t believe she said that her husband voted for Trump because it might get him a pay hike. She said he works as a non-military contractor for the government. I don’t know exactly what his reasons are for thinking that Replublican leadership is beneficial to his career, but it could simply mean that it presents him and his organization with more opportunities to advance the initiatives on which they’re working. Just a thought.
I would NEVER condone voting for Trump and I’m devastated today, but it may not be just about a pay hike for that family. In some areas where government contractors are major employers, that woman’s husband could very likely totally lose his job if defense spending is scaled back. Yes, those people could find new jobs but the fear of being laid-off from an otherwise great job is very scary for most people. Most Americans don’t have 6 months worth of savings to fall back on.
So, I have often struggled with the whole “small government is better” Republican line. Every time governments (city, state, or Federal) have to cut jobs or pay, that’s someone’s neighbor who is losing a job or salary. Not just people employed in defense related work.
it may be more of a case of a job in jeopardy than a pay hike. wanting to preserve an income to support an family is not the same as being greedy.
It’s actually truly horrendous to wish someone’s fiddle leaf fig dies. Mine died recently after desperate attempts to try to save it. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy…
Nicole! I don’t know if it was your intention, but that was the first time I laughed today – thank you!
LOL, literally laughed out loud at work. Thanks!
New needed that! Thanks!
This is literally the only thing that has made me laugh, or even remotely smile, today. Good job, Nicole. 🙂
haha that made me lol. thanks for the laugh nicole
I agree as I desperately try to keep my fiddle leaf fig alive!!
That’s hilarious.
thank you for that, nicole. 🙂
and thank you, emily. you are to be commended for opening this fascinating dialogue.
xx
Uh-huh. Meanwhile, people who voted FOR her (and Obama for the last 8) because they wanted free healthcare and free college and free ALL THE THINGS aren’t selfish, right? And someone who started a charity to sell her access to the State Department to line her personal pockets, that’s not selfish, right? It’s not selfish to take 30-40-50% of someone’s paycheck, but how DARE that guy want to keep what he has actually earned, right? It’s not selfish to want to better your life, to take care of your family. It’s natural. The defense cuts have been devastating to people that work for subcontractors. Don’t you Hillary voters know anyone who lost their job in the last 8 years? Or who wants a job, but can’t find one? Anyone who’s health care bill has tripled while their coverage has declined? Anyone who lost someone in a shooting by an extremist? These are real issues to real people. And they have been caused by the policies of the left. People on the left are some of the most judgmental, selfish, bigoted people I’ve ever met, and the inability on that side to see that Hillary Clinton’s massive corruption and flagrant disregard… Read more »
I totally agree with your first paragraph Deb.
Truly you are frightening. God save us all
Perfect!!! Thank you.
YES! THIS!
I feel like it’s a lost episode of House of Cards starring the Kardashians…
I’ll wear black today and black on January 20th and wonder how many racist/bigoted/ignorant people really do live in the USA. I though they were a dying breed. Obviously I was VERY wrong.
Yes!!!! thank you for this.
Yes!!!! All of this and more!!’ I couldn’t be more happy and woke breathing a sigh of relief. I’m so glad I no longer have to worry about being like Germany and building a wall inside my city to keep my family safe from refugees or fear becoming a socialist country like poor Venezuela and have a black market for toilet paper. Yes, those things are real and are happening and I truly felt we were headed that way.
Deb, I take serious issue with your first paragraph. I voted for Obama twice not because I personally benefitted from free healthcare and free college, but because I believe that universal healthcare is a benefit we should all receive, regardless of income. Without it, lower-income children will never get a chance to make something of their lives, and they don’t choose to be born poor.
You are so on point. Illegal aliens are not a race so calling someone racist because they want to uphold the LAWS of our country is ridiculous. What is racist is blaming whites for anything but as soon as a white person points a finger we are deemed racist!!
Please, everyone and anyone who voted for Clinton do just a bit of investigating on your own and find out the horrible and illegal things she and her husband have done.
No one at all is perfect, we alll have done or said something regrettable but to do what the Clintons have done over and over for power and profit while hiding behind the mask of do Gooder is disgusting, unethical and in American!!
And ps, anyone who voted for her because she is a women is as bad as voting for someone because they are a man or black or white. Racism and sexism come in many forms. Hypocrites have a real hard time seeing the difference.
I understand what Deb is saying and I’m glad she posted all of this for our consideration. However, I hope she understands that a lot of what she said is just wrong. For example, health care. Donald Trump will not help health care costs lower unless he is going to propose a single-payer system. That is the only thing that will help lower costs and keep it accessible. Health care was impossible before Obamacare (impossible to get because they could turn people away) and it will be impossible if they repeal it. Also, we have no idea what Donald’s policy on health care is because he didn’t tell us what any of his policies are. I won’t even address her seriously misguided comments on the Clinton Foundation. And finally, if you don’t like bigots then how could you have voted for the biggest bigot of them all? He is supported by David Duke and the KKK for God’s sake. That is a huge problem.
Deb thank you for saying that so well! We appreciate you representing us (we being the ones that aren’t with the liar and criminal Clinton) so thoughtfully!
Hi Deb. Just to let you know you are more likely to die from a gun (non terrorism relat e)than from a terrorist attack. In the last ten years a little over 300 Americans died from terrorism and over 300,000 died from guns. It’s easily found online. And refugees support and grow the economy. If you look up and find the real facts (not o. Fox News) you will see that. All the best to you.
Deb, It seems you missed the section of the post where we asked to be RESPECTFUL. Asserting that all liberals are judgmental, selfish and bigoted is absurd and offensive. I voted for President Obama and Secretary Clinton because I want to live in a country that respects the rights and beliefs of ALL people, not just people that look and think like me. It’s impossible to find a perfect candidate, so I have to utilize a weighted grading system – respect, diplomacy and inclusiveness rate extremely high on my scale. If you’re interested to learn about the other side, I can tell you that I have benefited from the Affordable Care Act for the last three years – it doesn’t afford me FREE healthcare, but it did allow me to take a job at a small non-profit that provides orphan care and orphanage support projects in Africa in Central America. We’re not yet at the point where we can afford to provide healthcare to our employees, but I believe so strongly in the work we are doing and I’m grateful to be able to be a part of the organization, fight for marginalized and underserved children in the world, AND… Read more »
Amen!! Finally! That’s exactly why I voted for him!! Sick of all of Hillarys nonsense
As a moderate who leans liberal, I feel like you could literally insert “conservative” or “republican” into the paragraph you just wrote…. Eye of the beholder, huh?
Absolutely on point!
I couldn’t agree more with each of your reasons. The fact that you are all so devastated is understandable, because you Hillary/Obama supporters probably do live in relatively isolated bubbles.
You obviously concluded that most people think as you do and feel as you do, so this jolt back to reality has been really difficult for you to fathom…”how could everyone not believe what you believe is reality in the U.S.”
I have to ask, honestly, what was Hillary going to do for you?
Just as you Hillary support people feel right now in your inability to understand how any reasonable person could support Trump – it is equally unfathomable to we Trump supporters, to understand how anyone could possibly see anything positive in Hillary Clinton.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/11/01/prominent-economists-including-eight-nobel-laureates-do-not-vote-for-donald-trump/
Well said, Deb.
You hit the nail in the coffin about real people with real issues! I don’t any of my liberal friends understand that! They also sure never understood what it was like for my husband and I to booth get laid off in 2008!
I voted for Obama twice, and voted for Hillary yesterday. I am an independent contractor and am very fortunate to have the means to pay for my own health insurance. Until obamacare, I was NOT able to obtain an independent policy because I have a pre-existing condition. This is a huge concern for me whenever I hear pols glibly saying they want to repeal ACA. by the way, most people have to pay a portion of their premium (like those who get insurance through a job with benefits). It is not a free handout!
What happened to respect, Emily? Much less offensive and more truthful commenters have been warned.
Well said!
All of this sums it up. Clinton is corrupt beyond any presidential candidate in history and people who support her are ambivalent toward it (the corruption). THAT is frightening.
I don’t know anyone who’s lost a job in the past 8 years. In fact, my experience has been quite the opposite. I’m originally from Michigan. My parents still live there, and almost all of my male family members are laborers (and largely Italian immigrants): construction, cement, tile workers. My dad was laid off when I was in high school/college, from 2002 to 2010, more often than he was working. But after Obama started to fix Bush’s mess, he started working again, and he is now nearing the end of his best working year of his life–for the third year in a row.
As for me, I graduated in 2010. It took me and many of my friends a year or more to find a job, but now we are all doing well. (And we were able to get health insurance after we aged out of our parents’!)
Obama was amazing for the economy. Hillary would’ve continued to help. Trump will only hurt us: https://www.google.com/amp/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13572172/donald-trump-white-working-class?client=safari
Thank you, Deb. You said it so well!!!
I wouldn’t dream of defending trumps words but the one criticism I find ridiculous is equating his “grab em by the pu&&y” to condoning sexual assault! I think of it as more in line with the saying “grab em by the balls”. Meaning women who are attracted to money and power throw themselves at him all the time or look for favors or help with their start-up business and he is bragging about that.
agree with deb, thank you.
ALL caused by policies on the left?! I’m pretty sure the Republicans were part of the government in the last 8 years too…except for they weren’t willing to do any compromising. And now you are asking Democrats to be open minded? That’s a little hard to stomach.
Deb…yes, yes, yes….1000x’s yes!
“…I could have wished her fig leaf would die”
High five to that!
KT Trump actually rolled out a very specific 7 point plan on how he would fix healthcare while repealing Obama care. It was actually very detailed and made perfect sense… It wasn’t millions of pages long requiring it to be passed before it was read. It is actually pretty darn amazing. If you are interested in learning about it here is the link https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform
He also will be bringing Ben Carson to the table to help with healthcare reform… An Actusl Brain surgeon… Not a paid politician with alternative motives and no medical back ground. I voted for Trump because his policies are for the people, he is already a multi millionaire who really isn’t looking for monetary gain off the backs of hard working Amercans. He understands economics and will listen to professionals in all walks of life to make America thrive. Personally the thought of my daughter having to see Hillary as the first woman president with all her lies & corruption made my stomach churn so I feel confident in my vote.
You shouldn’t assume it’s for a pay hike. Maybe it’s job security? Maybe her husband is the breadwinner and their livelihood would be st stake if Trump didn’t win. It could be any number of reasons. I think we should try to not be so quick to jump to conclusions.
Your comments are quite hateful, and honestly strongly evocative of why people voted against HRC (and, ergo, for DJT). It’s not about more more dollars in already full pockets, it’s about dinner on the table. It’s about, despite the ACA, being unable to afford insurance premiums with deductibles that are higher than a used car. Trump supporters are easily dismissed as ignorant, uneducated, sexist, racists white people. The truth is – yes, they are probably uneducated and white, and SOME are sexist, ignorant and/or racist. BUT these are people whose plights are being ignored in the name of ‘progress.’ What does it matter that HRC VOWED, seemingly uncaring as to the effects it would have, to put people out of jobs (e.g., coal miners who are already struggling, defense industry) for the sake of “progress” or “change.” HRC didn’t tell the LGBT crowd, yep there’s bigotry in the world, you’re just going to have to deal with it. But that’s precisely what she did with the voters who went Trump. Yes, many of them are white males (and automatically, we associate privilege with that), but they are also hard-working people whose livelihoods have been forsaken for other, more “worthy” causes.… Read more »
If you are hurting today try to console others instead of spreading hurt. Please consider how hurtful it is to hear others virulently disrespect your views. It’s one thing to say “i think___” or “I made this decision because____” and it is an entirely other thing to say “How dare you do ____” or “You are wrong”.
This country is free because individuals can make decisions for themselves. Freedom is always encroached when some try to make decisions for others.
“They refuse to remain forgotten, and they showed it with their vote.” This is pretty well said, BettyB! As someone who did not vote for Trump, I personally have a hard time understanding people who can’t understand why anyone would vote for him, especially when Clinton was the other option. As Bernie Sanders so eloquently explained, bigotry must not be tolerated. But to dismiss, ignore, or demean entire groups of people because they are white, uneducated, working class, Midwestern, or Southern is just as bigoted as dismissing, ignoring, or demeaning entire groups of people because they are, say, poor or Muslim or female or black. White privilege is real, but there are degrees–step away from Twitter and take a drive through the rust belt, and you’ll see. These are not the 4chan bros or the ironic fascists who voted for Trump as some kind of laugh or to hurt others. This election showed that a very large portion of the population felt dismissed for the last 8 years or longer–by Washington, by the media, by urban liberals, by academia, etc.–and wanted something different. Maybe Trump isn’t the answer (he’s disgusting, and I think a lot of people who voted for… Read more »
But you could elect a woman who sat by her lying, cheating husband while she called women trailer-trash, narcissistic loony tune, bimbos?
And speaking of money in coffers, what about the Clinton Foundation and foreign donations?
Both of these candidates are imperfect human beings.
Right, and that’s why we had to vote based on issues and not candidates. I resent the assault on my character based on my vote. I care about all human life and the future of my children. Just because we are for immigration reform does not mean we don’t want immigrants in our country or our kids to grow up in a rich, diverse country. I, for one, am living in an area where the drugs are pouring in and based on what police have told us is coming directly from Mexico and Columbia. We are small business owners and I want my children to have that option, not just corrupt government big business and welfare. I completely agree with your mother, Emily!
If you care about all human life, then how could you vote for a president who doesn’t care about minorities, and a Vice President who believes in conversion therapy for LGBQTAI people and was directly responsible for the suicides of hundreds of gay teenagers?
It’s not about the money. I too have a Military husband and it’s more about policy. Please, we do not make a lot of money- we do it to serve our country and we need to be able to stand behind our leadership and trust them with classified information, our foreign affairs, our military, etc.
You couldn’t vote for Trump because of words, but you could put Bill, the abuser, and Hillary the destroyer of his victims, back in the white house. My oh my! I’m a teacher, and his actions with Monica, caused junior high kids to think that oral sex was just fine. #1, I would never vote for a member of the Clinton crime family, and her proposed increase in taxes would destroy the economy that Obama has not improved. He was the first president to never get to 4% growth. Very few full time jobs were created in the 8 years, mostly part time to avoid the disaster of OBAMACARE. She also endangered our national security with her server, and she is set up for blackmail, since at least 5 foreign bad guy countries probably have some emails. Her policies along with Obama’s in the middle east resulted in that area being on fire with ISIS spreading world wide. I voted for Trump because of his tax cuts, the repeal of OBAMACARE, and bringing jobs back to America . Illegal immigration is also out of control, and many are committing horrible crimes, and the Muslim refugee mess is costing billions, and… Read more »
Trump’s rhetoric encourages hate crimes and sexual assaults, but you’re worried about teenagers thinking oral sex is okay? Flabbergasted by your priories, here.
Exactly. WTF is wrong with people? Crawl back under your ‘sex is bad’ rock, lady. You are severely misguided.
I wouldn’t dream of defending trumps words but I think the criticism over the “grab em by the pu&&y” comment is ridiculous. I think of it in terms of the “grab em by the balls” saying. We wouldn’t consider that encouraging sexual assault. I am pretty sure there are many women who are attracted to money and power who throw themselves at trump and this “grab em by the pu&&y” remark is a way of bragging about that. Meaning he has lots of opportunities with women.
Oral sex *is* just fine. Your comment makes it sound evil and like something to avoid and not be taught in health class. *That* mindset is a massive problem.
Presumably, though, you’re referring specifically to the fact that it was both adulterous and ‘on the job’ when Bill and Monica were gettin’ after it. Those two things are a problem, not the fact that two consenting adults engaged in *gasp* oral sex. Even the fact of *where* they chose to partake in the activity is not necessarily a problem. Ideal? Good judgment? Sanitary? Probably not. But if you think all other and all future president/first lady (husband and wife) didn’t/don’t have all different types of sex in and around the white house, you might be both delusional and a bit boring. And that says nothing about the very likely fact that plenty of others are probably getting it on all over the white house on the regular.
But you could elect a woman who “stood by” as her husband had an affair in the White House? First of all what comes out of his mouth is a far cry from his actions. He is a public figure yet we have not photo or video proof he has ever actually done any of the stupid BS he has mouthed about. I am not willing to judge him on words alone. Hillary LIED to the American people over and over! And it is on tape! I do hope he can deliver on his promises… I am not a bigot or racist but we have laws for entering this country and if we allow those laws to be broken what other laws will be next. Our police and military deserve respect! My husband is a disabled vet who has had to deal with the VA for almost 15 years. If your medical care was as bad you would switch but they don’t get that option. This country has two economic groups rich and poor. Where is the middle class? Shrinking away… even college educated are finding it hard to get jobs. I think the biggest issue is people today only… Read more »
I did not vote for Trump, but for Hillary Clinton as did anyone in my small Department of Defense Contractor company except for one person who would never vote for a Democratic because of taxes and is very open about it as her husband is a lawyer and she is a CPA. (This morning has been one of the most somber I have every seen except when we entered work after the much more tragic loss of life do to the space accidents.) I have worked here for 16 years and 85% of our business comes through the government. During the last Bush term we lost 28 of our 50 employees because of government mandates but for the last 3 or 4 years can barely keep up with the work load.
Unfortunately not all facts are actual facts or hold up across the board.
Victoria- I don’t presume to know everything about how politics affect government jobs, professionally my husband and I are from two different worlds. I’m sure there are very different circumstances and types of contractor positions. He works at an Air Force Base in cyber security and is currently at then end of a 10 year contract with his company and going to another company with a $20,000 pay cut and his office is very understaffed- people went to the private sector for job security. We know a lot of people that do similar jobs but work under different goverenment contract companies and the experience seems to be different for everyone.
Thanks for this. My mother works for a federal department, and they have contract workers, too. But they were cut under Bush, and have risen under Obama. She has been given a lot more leeway in her job to pursue innovation under Obama than she did under Bush. She is close to retirement and will probably leave when Trump comes into power (I still can’t believe I’m typing that).
I wish the original poster had explained a bit more why her husband believed his job security would improve under Trump, and not under Clinton. That seems to go against what I know.
Republicans have historically been more in favor for military spending, increased military spending was part of Trump’s agenda. This in the long run means more work at the military base a lot of people in my city work at. The exception to this would be in times of recession or in an effort to bring down taxes.
I think people like Lisa may actually have BOOSTED the Trump vote! A lot of voters had low opinions of both candidates and one side was repeatedly shamed, being told they were sexist, racist, and stupid. People are sick of being told what is the right way to feel. I’m a Trump hater living deep inside a liberal bubble, though within the circle of trust I know secret Clinton haters. That’s right, seemed like there were a lot of those, judging by how off the exit polls were. They remain quiet because upon trying to voice an opinion, they are immediately dehumanized with a label, at which point their opinions are invalidated and no debate is possible.
Shoot, I meant Katy, one of the first responders to this particular thread.
Interesting thread, given that Hillary Clinton has always been a total hawk! I voted for Jill Stein in a heavily blue state, but I have spent many years in Republican strongholds, so I get it. Funny, though, that Trump voters wanted “change,” and he’s giving them Gingrich, Christie & Giuliani. Defund education for decades, and this is what you get. His supporters aren’t evil; they’re vulnerable, and he scooped them up. God help us all!
I agree – I’m seeing so many people who are angry about the election and are calling everyone who voted trump “ignorant idiots” “uneducated f–ks” and worse….. and this is supposedly from people who are against “hate” and “intolerance” and supposedly support all human rights and freedoms???? And they are acting and talking with the least tolerance and love that I’ve ever seen?
I’m a New Zealand watching this from the other side of the world but trust me, it’s all our media has been talking about for months (and yep, our media strongly supported Hilary and defamed Trump in every way possible), and I find this reaction from Hillary supporters really confusing.
I can’t imagine if Hilary had won that Trump supporters would be bashing the winners with hateful terms like this…. so what I’m seeing is “the left” in America being really intolerant and sore losers. At the end of the day the people voted and that’s how the system works.
Anyway, that’s been my observation so far but yeah, I am really really glad not to be an American right now 😉
Amy M, you nailed it.
It’s sad to me how blinded people are by hatred and fear that they fail to see their own hypocrisy, as you just articulated so clearly.
I did not vote for Trump. Neither did I vote for Hillary. Both are despicable to me and I had to make a decision I could live with, and one in which I could look my 13-year-old daughter in the eye and discuss.
However- I believe that the media spin has made both into bigger monsters than we would believe about them, if we could just get/look at the facts. I think Trump will do a good job with jobs and tax reform, which I think will encourage prosperity as we haven’t seen it in a long time. I am choosing hope and possibility.
I heard an interview with JD Vance this morning (wrote the memoir “Hillbilly Elegy”) and his view was that people voting for Trump are largely not racists, but are working class folks who feel very let down by the last 8 years of empty promises of hope and change. He may be onto something.
We need to come together, not steep further in our anger.
That’s exactly how it is! Those of us who voted for Trump had to do it silently, because God forbid we rile up the Liberals. I’m half Spanish, and the media has bashed Trump and glorified Clinton everywhere in Europe which is giving everyone a skewed view of reality. There’s a reason why so many Americans voted for Trump in the silent vote; it’s tiring to hear all of the hatred from those that are spewing more hatred than anyone else. The hypocrisy is unreal. I’m very glad you’re realizing this all the way from New Zealand, the media has omitted a lot of information that many are unaware of.
Ann M.,
At his rallies, Trump put members of the press in a pen and encouraged his supporters to yell insults at them. He mocked a disabled person. He brags about groping women. He threatens to put his opponents in prison. In sum, he is profoundly anti-social and anti-democratic in ways that none of the other candidates (of any party) were.
Trump supporters waved Confederate flags at his rallies. His campaign used anti-semitic materials produced by neo-Nazis. They beat people up, especially people of color. This was encouraged by the candidate himself.
The idea that we have to be tolerant of any kind of belief or behavior is very, very dangerous. My in-laws survived Nazi Germany (barely). They have seen this kind of thing before. They are life-long Republicans and they are very, very worried.
Respectfully, you have no idea what you are talking about. If Hillary won, black people in the south would be even more persecuted, perhaps shot, there would be literal militia uprising. My black friends in North Carolina woke up to swastika graffiti on buildings and confederate flags (basically, as bad as a swastika) on trucks because of the joyous celebrations. Hillary supporters are reacting to a campaign that was full of misogamy, hate, bigotry, and bullying. I feel the right to call a Trump supporter an uneducated fuck because I have yet to meet one who can explain to me how is their world going to get so much better, what policies did they support (NONE! he HAD NONE!), and what progress do they hope to see (NONE, he doesn’t believe in science!) Notice that we had Bush for 8 years, and another Bush before that, and none of this was happening. I wonder why? Because each articulated things that he was going to do; he didn’t laugh at disabled, he didn’t talk about grabbing women’s pussies, etc. You must see how clear that is? We will unite, we will move forward but now, now, let us remind those that… Read more »
Mae, I think you are onto something. I wouldn’t paint all liberals with this brush like some do, but I have a very intelligent and articulate coworker who nonetheless *cannot* tolerate disagreement. I once witnessed someone ask her a question about the refugee crisis, and she was so outraged that anyone would even have a question rather than already hold the same opinion about it that she did that she called him an idiot and refused to engage with him. How shortsighted of her to resort to name-calling as opposed to taking the time to answer the question, explain her position, and possibly change a mind! I was heartened by all the “love trumps hate” messaging right after the election, and I generally regard the people protesting the outcome as people who care about the country and want what’s best for it and its people. But when I see the media and disappointed Clinton supporters revert almost instantly back to claiming that anyone who voted for Trump as a racist, a misogynist, or a fascist, I cringe, not just because I think that is a gross oversimplification, but because they are working against their own interests by doing so. So… Read more »
My husband is retired from the military and he notes just the opposite re: a R President over a D President. Also good to remember that the R majority in our government stopped them from working and getting paid during the sequestration.
Actually, the wiki leaks proved that it was hillary’s campaign that planted the racist materials and started fights. She coluded to disrupt and disturb views of Trump and his supporters. Irrefutable evidence in e mails from john Podesta.
My husband voted for Trump strictly based on what he has promised on policy and lowering taxes…he agrees that Trump is not polished-but he also couldn’t stomach Hillary.
Thank you so much for posting this question. After crying hysterically this morning, I am ready to come to a place of understanding. I want to do the work, the hard work, of trying to heal. We may be broken, but I do believe that we can rise together.
I woke up so angry and then i decided to live by Michelle Obama’s words, “when they go low, we go high”. I actually congratulated people I knew who supported him. It made me feel good, actually I am not ashamed to admit, it made me feel superior.
It is also a huge wake up call for liberal democrats, we can no longer be idle, we need to organize, volunteer, and contribute.
On a side note, had he lost they would have claimed it was rigged, and worse yet made him a martyr like figure. He had no excuses to fail in four years , and he said “believe me, I am the only one that can fix this”. Let’s sit back and watch him fail with a Republican Congress and House, and supreme court to fill….believe me, he will.
At least now we get to see his tax returns, cause didn’t he promise that?
How does this attitude help anyone? Why not try to help him succeed? After all whether you like it or not he is OUR president and his success is OUR nations success. As a side note, I did not vote for Trump, I simply do not understand this desire to watch our country crash and burn.
I don’t desire it, but I predict it, that is why I voted for Hillary. Where did I say it was my hearts desire? What power do I have one way or the other?
I’m with you on this. A full Republican slate – house, senate and presidency. This will be a real experiment in truly enacting a Republican vision. It has taken the country 8 years to get to where we are, with the level of economic recovery that we have. We’ll see what the proposed tax cuts, and proposed spending decisions and proposed elimination of Obamacare really do to those that voted for him. My prediction is it won’t end well (exhibit A, the Bush recession).
This is my main concern too – that the country will see what Republic policies really do for the American people, and I don’t think it will be good. I think this is why the country was so ready for Obama when he became elected, because people were realizing that the Republican agenda isn’t good for the country. Just feels like a huge bummer that we all forget so soon, and vote back in the Republican platform instead of continuing to make actual progress under a Democratic platform.
With all my heart I’m sending you love.
I’m far away from you all. I’m from Chile.
And very respectfully I’d like to say that you have a GREAT BEAUTIFUL nation and will never fall no matter what.
It’s so nice Emily that you have this desire to understand what is happening with an open mind and to share it here.
I have read a lot of great comments… Filled with passion and respect which is probably the combination that have made America what it is…
Mitch McConnell, senator from my home state of Kentucky, said after the inauguration of President Obama, “I hope he fails.” He and his cronies did all they could to obstruct progress. Just think how much we could have accomplished if they had worked together. He set the precedent for wishing failure on an elected official of the opposing party.
I’m not a Trump supporter. But why would we want to see him fail? Or the whole house or congress to fail? Don’t we all want the best for the country, regardless regardless who won? Should we all support with kindness and love, whoever won, even if it’s Trump? Should we all be united, more than ever?
Do you really want him to fail? When our country is already struggling? So four years from now, you can continue to be cynical and say, “I told you so!” You are letting you’re anger, pride and resentment get in the way of what could be true open mindedness. He has a gigantic job ahead of him! What if he succeeds?! What if we have a million small victories as a country because of forward motion? Because of change? He wasn’t my pick either. But I have faith in the people he has surrounded himself with and faith that he does love this country.
I think you touched on an important insight – the notion that our nation is struggling.
I believe that due to who we are as individuals, our answers are different.
Some supporters of Hillary saw a 4.5% unemployment rate and the fact that everyone has access to healthcare (affordable or not) as a sign we are doing well.
Some supporters of Donald Trump may have been displaced when factory work went overseas, and see that as a sign that we’re not growing here first.
I am praying that we can come up with a semblance of goals that please both sides of the aisle/ MOST Americans, and we can grow as one.
Yes Kas!
“sit back and watch him fail?” That is not the solution. If he fails, our country fails. I did not vote for him, but let’s dig deep down and find ways to support him.
Should I help him take away my reproductive rights, or help him make it so my sister can’t marry her girlfriend? Let me know.
What I will do is help him by actually paying taxes (pun intended), raising my daughter to be a decent human being who would never make fun of a handicap person or vote for someone that does, and by investing in my 401K (aka the Stock Market).
Again, do I “want” my country to fail? No way and no how, but I believe it will. That is why I voted for Hillary, cause I believed she would do the most as President. If you voted for Trump, you believed he would, and you thought Hillary would fail. It’s the same for every election.
Well, it’s not that we would like to see the country fail. But that’s the logic result of electing a notorious liar (just fact check people), a sexist, a racist, a person who has never in his life done something to benefit anything else them himself. He is a dangerous man, the whole world is watching and think this is a joke! But his voters don’t care that he is a danger for world-peace. Getting out of NATO, really?? My daughter was crying last night and asked if we are getting World War 3 now. Look in the history books! The uprising of Nazi Germany started the same way. And don’t say later ‘we didn’t know’. The last eight years have been a recovering of the previous horrible years under Bush. The country was in the WORST shape ever and Obama inherited the worst economic downfall. Now unemployment is the lowest since 6 years, etc etc. I can’t believe people really think Trump and his followers will do any good to the economy. He is the biggest fraud ever. But he, want to stay positive….
‘Sitting back and watching him fail’ means NOT supporting his policies that are literally going to ruin the country and the environment. Noone wants to watch the country fail but supporting actions that are harmful and supreme court justices that restrict the freedoms we should all have IS helping our nation succeed.
I agree that it means not supporting his policies. Independent analysts have already been very clear that the fiscal policies proposed by Trump would increase the national debt. Today, The Economist (a right-leaning publication) reported that a Trump presidency will increase inflation and government spending without the capability to increase economic growth. In addition, they reported that his potential rejection of climate change could have devastating effects on the economy in the long-term.
That is why I hope he is unsuccessful as a president.
Right on, Kira
Yes, I expect, or hope, that is what people mean when they say they want a president to fail– they want the agendas/policies to not pass, because they believe them to be detrimental.
On the flip side, I don’t understand when people say they want an opponent to succeed…at what? The agendas which they believe to be detrimental? Do they just immediately change their minds about what will and won’t be good for the country?
I did not, but I know many who did. I have boiled their reasons down to
1) “I vote only GOP”
2) “Women cannot lead”
3a) “I hate the Clintons, they are a bunch of career politican scumbags who only care about their own personal gain
3b) “The US Government has let me down repeatedly over the last $X years, this is a chance to get somebody fresh in.
3a and 3b are both “anti-establishment” but for very different reasons I think need to be separated out.
Thanks for this…I never understood the “career politician” argument. If you’re going to build a house, you’re going to hire a Professional Architect, right? You aren’t going to hire a store clerk on the corner to engineer your most prized possession, correct? Using the same analogy, don’t we want someone that has been involved in politics and understands all the in’s and out’s in addition to where Aleppo is?
This is sort of a double-edged sword. With career politicians we have few or none who understand science and technology which are two of the big driving forces today. It also means that politicians are beholden to the party and that makes it more difficult to compromise or at least reach across the aisle.
I think “career politician” refers more to making all of your money through politics and less about experience. The Kennedys were a family of politicians but didn’t make (most of) their money that way.
i do not believe that more than a handful of people think that women cannot lead. i have certainly never known one and as an actively engaged citizen I can tell you that i have not heard one trump supporter or GOP voter say this. ONLY the media wants you to think that there are large percentages of people out there voting against women because they are women (instead of voting against them because they disagree with their views).
Yes!
Kimberly, I wish I could say the same, but I do know plenty of people who think a woman couldn’t lead. I definitely think this storyline was amplified during the election (what wasn’t?!), but there were undercurrents of anti-woman-in-charge rhetoric in a lot of what Trump and his supporters had to say. Even small-ish things like calling Secretary Clinton a “bitch” or a “nasty woman” — it might not always have been intentionally sexist, but it’s an unconscious bias that exists and that certainly played a part in this election. As one tiny anecdote, just yesterday a woman told my mother that she voted for Trump because after seeing “how incompetent” Brazil’s first female President was, she didn’t think a woman would be the right choice to lead the United States. On a different note, I voted for Clinton and I was a pretty awful person to be around yesterday. I cried and fought and insulted anyone who voted for Trump, and it did not make any difference, nor did it make me feel any better. After reading through posts like these (thank you, Emily!) and also several thoughts from other people I admire who are calling for inclusivity and… Read more »
I did not vote for trump, but my father in law did. He was mostly 3a, with a little 3b. He’s a struggling small business owner and thinks the current system is not set up to allow him to succeed.
He is, however, an Obamacare supporter. But even though he relies on it literally to save his life, he felt more strongly that Hillary is dishonest and withhold abuse the office for her own gain.
what’s he going to do when Obamacare gets repealed?
I did not and could not vote for this man however, my father in law did. My understanding is that he really resonated with #1 that Stacey listed above – he could not vote outside party lines and his goals for the country line up in terms of economic policies rather than social policies. All of Trump’s incompatibilities were written off as unimportant social ‘banter’ and character flaws. He never said this but, I think a lack of understanding and research into Trump’s full line of social stances (and history in business) played a large part. I also believe his strong traditional religious beliefs had a deciding factor on the main widely debated issues (gay marriage & abortions namely) and whether it is acknowledged or innate I do also think sexism played a role. I do not think that anyone who voted for Trump voted for him to hurt other people – no one votes to harm another person; we are far too self centered for that. They generally voted because they thought it was in their (economic?) best interests and the things that will effect them. For example, if they are not LGBT, they don’t have to ‘worry’ about… Read more »
It’s not as if the people he’s using to staff is cabinet are in any way anti-establishment. Also, I defy someone to coherently explain to me how an old white man who inherited a significant amount of his wealth and who has been able to take advantage of tax loopholes and bankruptcies for years could possibly be characterized as “anti-establishment”.
Okay, he has been in the private sector for a lifetime, not making a living off taxpayers, as career politicians do. If he has taken advantages of tax laws on the books to keep more of his own money, more power to him. An “old white man”….. as opposed to an also older white woman who assumed it was her turn since she didn’t make the cut earlier? Not to mention the cloud of controversies the Clinton family brings along on a regular basis. Also, isn’t Ben Carson, successful surgeon, anti-establishment? I am a woman who supported Trump, as Hillary is no champion of women I know. I remember clearly her mission to destroy a 22 YO, subordinate intern while knowing her husband’s wandering was truth if not for that infamous blue dress, not to mention all the money she has taken from foreign countries who do worse than imaginable things to women. Hope this is both coherent and helpful.
Jill, it is neither coherent nor helpful.
1) This is not a comparison. He’s been in the private sector of a lifetime. That doesn’t mean he’s anti-establishment. He has made his fortune by hobnobbing with the political elite, including the Clintons whom you seem to revile. This makes him both party of the establishment and the political machine.
2) Yes, and old white man. Not a comparison. I didn’t say that Hillary wasn’t establishment; I was challenging the statement Trump is somehow anti-establishment.
3) Controversies and other commentary re: Clinton? No question. But still irrelevant to Trump being anti-establishment.
He is choosing staff members who are old political players. That’s establishment. He inherited millions from his father. That’s establishment. He has filed for bankruptcy multiple times and was able to format those bankruptcies so that he kept his fortune. Again, establishment. You can keep trying, but you cannot deny that a group of people elected Trump on the basis that he’s somehow anti-establishment when the reality is that he is very much a part of the establishment.
Jill, I voted for Trump as well. I was very concerned about the appointment of another liberal judge. We are business owners and the Obamacare tax on business is horrendous. It’s 25% tax and pushing towards 33%. How can businesses survive?
You are absolutely wrong.
Wrong how exactly? This is open-sharing time… let’s hear it.
I think you summed it up nicely.
I believe that many are frustrated with the way government works today.
I saw an exit poll from voters saying that the majority of their congressmen don’t know what’s in the people’s best interest. And, another exit poll from congressmen/ people in Washington saying that they know what’s best for the country. The two sides aren’t necessarily copacetic.
I don’t know a single republican (and I know quite a few) who has said anything close to “women cannot lead”. That’s just silly. I think this is about many things, but not about female leadership.
You maybe right about the hate for the Clintons.
I live in the south and I think you nailed this, particularly A and 3A. I voted for Hillary but always worried about her as a candidate because the Hillary hate runs SO deep. I’ve never seen anything like it. I know Obama voters that voted third-party or stayed home. We fooled ourselves thinking that the fear of Trump would be enough to make people turn out and hold their noses to vote for Hillary, but clearly that wasn’t the case.
FWIW, I work in tech and live in a college city that’s pretty liberal for the south (HRC won our county), so I do understand how the bubble effect happens. But I also have plenty of friends and relatives that voted for Trump. These aren’t horrible people but they were fed the “Hillary is a criminal” story for 25 years so they were able to rationalize falling in line for the Republican nominee pretty easily.
Lucy: I don’t think the fact that Clinton is a woman is the reason she lost, but I do think it probably affected her overall likability, and thus in some way the hatred for her. I think there’s some truth to the idea that people tolerate and even respect certain things in male leaders that read as unlikable in female leaders. So it probably is a factor overall, at least in terms of sowing the seeds of doubt. I think she lost, though, because of the reason you hint at. I agree, the DNC believed that fear of Trump would force people to vote for Hillary, one of the most “establishment” candidates in recent history. It’s obvious that Clinton was the best candidate for Democratic politicians: she’s been in the game a long time and she knows how to play. But the DNC totally underestimated the degree to which voters wanted an anti-establishment candidate. They should have been able to tell from the surprising success of Bernie and Trump, but they wanted their gal and her protection, and they made sure she got the nom. To be fair, I don’t think the RNC can take any credit for Trump, since… Read more »
I did not vote for Trump, but my parents did. They live in a small, conservative state and there was no doubt that their state would go Trump. They wrestled with this decision for months. However, they are both very involved in the political scene and they deeply believe, and have researched enough and spoken with political insiders at the state & federal level to find evidence, that the Clinton’s are criminals. That was their reason.
I never really understood the ‘the Clintons are criminals’ argument as a reason to vote for Trump. Because Trump is too, and worse. (Sexual assault, not paying taxes, money laundering etc).
He legally didn’t pay taxes. There are loopholes that plenty of large companies use. He didn’t commit fraud.
except with his foundation. Where he did commit fraud.
THANK YOU!!!! I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Sorry my comment was in response to “Meg” not “Jill”.
People died before they could testify against the Clintons. Pretty sinister. Clintons gave scary secrets to China.
Do you know what evidence they found? I really want to understand. My husband voted for Trump and for the sake of our marriage, I want to see it from both sides. What did the Clintons do? The emails, the foundation, something else? And how does that compare with what Trump has done? His sexual assaults, his refusal to pay vendors, his university…
This is something I found on my Facebook feed today:
“Hillary Clinton is a classic TV/Movie villain. And for those of you crying that her criminality was “never proved” – yes, because she’s THAT kind of criminal. The kind that slips away from every charge and indictment, gets away with murder and corruption because she has THAT kind of friends, until HOPEFULLY the season finale. If that sounds familiar, it’s because she’s literally the living embodiment of the character in shows that cause you people cheer when they finally get caught and cry when let off the hook yet again by pulling strings – EXCEPT IN REAL LIFE.”
I’m not sure how true this is as I try to avoid the Clinton negativity, but some might find this to be the case.
And we all know how reliable Facebook is for providing facts, right?
I am also incredibly curious where this “criminal clintons” came from?? I honestly want to know. The foundation? The emails? Help me understand this. Yes they are a political couple but I am trying to see the “criminal” as it seems this was the main reason Clinton did not win. Give me proof/evidence so I can understand.
Here are just a few things they did: 1. In 1978 Hillary had massive personal profits from trading cattle futures (with the help of Tyson foods the largest employer in AK and huge donor to Bill) and in return Bill gave Tyson foods millions of dollars of state funded loans, company executives on AK state boards, favorable environmental rulings, and basically sold AK legislature. 2. Whitewater. She obstructed the billing records from her time as a partner in the Rose Law firm during the Watergate scandal to keep herself out of jail. 3. Before Bill left office, he made several controversial pardons from which Hillary’s brothers reportedly received large amounts of money from. 4. Numerous money scandals associated with their foundation. While Hilary was director, she filed Including tax fraud and gaining personal enrichment from a non-profit while serving as a US senator and as Secretary of State. Only 9% of the money in their foundation went to charity in 2013 while they funneled tens of millions to their personal bank accounts. 5. There are too many $ scandals to list but Peter Schweizer wrote a book called “Clinton Cash” that supposedly connects their personal fortune (besides their govt salaries)… Read more »
Hi Azrn! I had to correct this, AK is Alaska and AR is Arkansas. I grew up there, and people often get that wrong. Also, many people in Arkansas don’t like the Clintons, especially Hillary. She never fit the “mold” of a governors wife. The PBS doc “The Choice” touched on this.
this is super helpful. Whether its been proven or not, it helps me understand what people are suspicious of.
Thank you for your insight. Furthermore, If the Clinton foundation was really a charity, why are there still tent cities in Haiti? My dauaghter, who does short term missions guiding Haitian teachers in curriculum development, has seen no benefit from the Clintons. It’s rumored that the Clintons own Haiti, keeping them in poverty to control them.
This cannot be a real question. Are you seriously wondering if a failed university is a bigger issue than letting an ambassador die? Or having a private unsecured email server for the express and illegal purpose of avoiding FOIA requests? Or having your maid print out classified information? Or Anthony Weiner (that perv) storing hundreds of thousands of emails on his laptop, right by all the kiddie porn, no doubt? Only ever working for the government, but somehow amassing tens of millions of dollars in a few short years? Pay to Play? Any of this ring a bell?
Deb, Again, none of what you have posted is based in fact. What are your sources for all of these assertions? Can link to one credible article with research or proof to back these claims up?
The evidence was in her emails. She had her house maid print off classified information about foreign affairs. And her aides all admitted the Clinton Foundation was involved in pay to play schemes. They predicted it would be a problem. And finally, all of her criminal activities were committed while she worked for us in her role as a public servant. I agree Trump should be investigated for any alleged fraudulent activity, but those occurred as a private citizen…not while taxpayers were paying his salary.
Well, Nicole, I distinctly recall 4 dead Americans in Benghazi…. Or maybe that was all my imagination? Or maybe I imagined the part where the FBI director said pretty much everything she told congress regarding the emails was a lie? What did I say that was false? The government has put people in PRISON for far less significant security breaches. She BROKE THE LAW REPEATEDLY WHILE IN OFFICE.
I literally cannot make it clearer.
Incredibly uninformed.
Can you explain how she is uninformed?
I encourage you to read Guilty As Sin by Edward Klein this will answer many of your questions.
I have heard so many times that the Clintons are criminals, but not a real answer for exactly what crimes they have committed. If it is not e-mails or Benghazi, then what is it? I am genuinely trying to understand, because on the other side of the coin I see Trump being charged with child rape, many cases related to his businesses, ties to Russia, etc, and it is hard for me to imagine what the Clintons could have done that would be worse.
If you’re under 50 you may not remember any of this. This is what was happening in the 90’s. If it had been one or two things and none of the current controversies,pay to play, emails, Benghazi etc then that would be one thing. But put it all together and no I could not vote for her. So my vote for trump was a vote against Hillary. When Bill Clinton was president, he allowed Hillary to assume authority over a health care reform. Even after threats and intimidation, she couldn’t even get a vote in a democratic controlled congress. This fiasco cost the American taxpayers about $13 million in cost for studies, promotion, and other efforts. Then President Clinton gave Hillary authority over selecting a female attorney general. Her first two selections were Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood – both were forced to withdraw their names from consideration. Next she chose Janet Reno – husband Bill described her selection as “my worst mistake.” Some may not remember that Reno made the decision to gas David Koresh and the Branch Davidian religious sect in Waco, Texas resulting in dozens of deaths of women and children. Husband Bill allowed Hillary to make… Read more »
I remember many of those instances and I’m 37. I also grew up in Memphis in the 90’s when several local attorneys were part of the ongoing investigations into the Clinton business dealings. One of those attorneys mysteriously died while in D.C. to present to Congress 300+ pages of evidence into their criminal wrongdoings. There are more than 30 “mysterious” deaths of professionals associated with the Clintons. That’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s fact.
The Clintons are in their 70s. They have been in public life for nearly 50 years. They probably have 1000s upon 1000s of professionals “associated” with them in some way, many of whom are also older. Is 30 people dying (out of 1000s over 50 years) statistically significant? No one, because even defining “associated” is impossible. Everyone is pretty much “associated” with everybody else if you trace relationships to a certain degree.
This kind of argument is why those who don’t hate the Clintons think the Trumpist conspiracy theorists aren’t the country’s best minds.
Don’t see the reply button on Dark’s post below, so will respond here.
The timing of the deaths in context are significant, as are how the people were associated with them.
Interesting. thanks for taking the time to write it down. Many of those do seem insignificant, but all together (if its true) it is compelling. I think I will grab those books that people are suggesting.
Emily – before you pick up any/all of the Clinton related books some commenters have mentioned, please read this review of a handful of them: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2016/10/07/these-books-will-help-you-hate-hillary-clinton-but-only-if-you-already-do/
I think it’s important to recognize that these authors aim to: a) sell books, b) drive traffic for websites that quote or discuss them, and c) discredit Clinton. Also, I know some people think that the Washington Post is just part of the liberal media and will dismiss the criticisms in these books, but we need to think critically of information we consume from either side of the political spectrum.
I voted for Hillary- I don’t know who my parents ultimately voted for, but I know that neither of them would EVER vote for her.
Both of my parents are retired from the federal government and worked in National Security.
For them, her actions regarding the emails are criminal. They believe that if either of them did what she did, they would be in jail, no questions asked. Maybe they are right, I certainly don’t know.
I have a lot of other family members who also worked in national security and feel the same way.
I agree that she grossly mishandled the situation. But in the end, we all need to vote according to the issues that matter most to us. To me, Trumps treatment of women is unforgivable, to my parents (and others), Hillary’s treatment of national secrets is.
Will Trump pose a larger threat to women now that he is president than as a private citizen?
Will Clinton pose less of a threat to national security as a private citizen?
When good character or a clean criminal record are not in our options, we can vote based on risk and scope of risk.