It’s an ‘Ask the Audience’ day, except less about trim colors and more about the fate of our country and all our children. Waking up this morning was pretty horrifying for many of us. And staring at two tiny children who want to build rockets out of legos with their mama and dada for two hours when we both just wanted to cry and cry was quite the challenge. Like many of us I don’t have the words. I don’t understand. I just keep thinking “WHY???” and “HOW???”
We all live in these bubbles of people who are just like us. Nobody I know personally voted for Trump, unless they are shielding me from that truth. But 50% of Americans did and many of you are in that category, right? So in the spirit of learning, understanding, engaging, and processing I’d love to hear from any of you who voted for Trump. I’d love to know why. Because the story that is in my head is a very dark one. Is it because of the economy? Immigration? Because you like him? Because you really don’t like Hillary? My uber driver told me he voted for Trump because he didn’t think that a woman would be respected internationally. That shocked me for sure, but was still enlightening as to why someone would not vote for her.
Since I know that most of my audience is on the liberal side, I challenge all of you to converse respectfully and to really try to understand because that is all we can do at this point. We are stronger together but right now we feel pretty divided. I want to understand so I can help. My bubble could use some breaking and I’d love to invite inside of that bubble, people who can help clarify why you would vote for this man, despite his faults.
Hopefully I won’t regret this. And we do have a design post planned for today, if I can pull myself out of this haze to finish writing it.
So folks, why did you vote for Trump? And what are going to be the hopefully positive outcomes of a Trump presidency? I genuinely really would like to know so I, too, can muster more hope for us.
*Please, for those of you who are as disappointed as I am, use this as an opportunity to promote hope over hate and listen instead of shaming – If it gets out of hand I will pull this post down. Let’s TRY to figure out how to move forward together and learn from this experience as Americans (and yes, you don’t have to leave your real name – it can be absolutely anonymous).
Did not vote for Trump but just wanted to chip in say you are both brave/crazy. Hoping this can start a healing conversation or just remain civil. Must say, I have low expectations.
Ditto what Alex said. And thank you for speaking out — and for bravely/crazily trying to engage, Emily. I am heartbroken and immobilized with grief. I know we’ve got to move forward and to never lose faith on a kind, just, responsible society. But living in a conservative area (hello, Orange County) where many of my colleagues are high-fiving each other, I feel divided in my heart from my neighbors. Deep breath. Growth is rarely linear. I will try to believe in this country and in humanity, still.
BE the change you want. Use YOUR mouth to act the talk the way you want to be spoken to. use the legs God gave you to go out into the world and live how you want the world to live. That’s it. Don’t have low expectations or you will spread bitterness. Try constantly to be better than that.
I totally agree. It doesn’t matter if you are Democrat or Republican. I look around and see a bunch of adults complaining about the world we live in, before the election, even. I say, get out from behind your computers, put down your cell phone, get out of your house and GO HELP!! Especially, for me, help children. Be a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, Girl Scout, or Brownie leader. Big a Big Brother or Big Sister. Call your local hospital and volunteer to help hold the crack babies. Go to an “Old Folks Home” or a VA hospital and volunteer!! HELP change your world and your attitude will be better and you WILL CHANGE THE WORLD!
I am very anti-Trump, and so disappointed in the results of this election, but I think that part of the problem is assumption on the part of liberals that everything we do is growth, without inviting both sides into the conversation. I think the reason why we were so blindsided is because we operate on the idea that everything we do is “progress” without stopping to truly consider and listen to other view points with respect rather than just jumping to the assumption that they are narrow-minded or bigots. I think this is a wake-up call to us to widen our definition of what growth and progress are for our country. Half of the country surely cannot be hate-driven fear-mongrels. These (I think) are good people who do honest work and genuinely also want the best for our country.
This is a wonderful viewpoint. Thank you.
This is an amazing comment. I love it, it’s so true, and it’s so hard to have this kind of introspection. Kudos.
I could not agree with this more. It’s one helluva wake-up call to see how divided we are. But clearly it’s a wake-up call that we needed. And now we need to learn from it and grow from it. Hopefully together.
This is a beautiful sentiment Erica.
Erica, thank you – this is beautiful and so true
Wonderful viewpoint- I’m a moderate conservative and this is my biggest beef with my liberal friends- they assume I think like they do and anyone who disagrees is an uneducated moron. I truly think this time around it was more about the trade deals that have hurt people in certain areas of the country.
I too am a moderate conservative, or as I like to call it, social liberal, fiscal conservative. Your comment is everything I feel. I vote on economic issues and international policy – social issues will move along with or without a president’s support. Eight years ago, Obama said marriage should be between a man and a woman, and during his presidency that issue has evolved drastically. I am tired of people on the far left (and some on the right) saying that those of us who voted for Trump are racists or uneducated. I have a Masters degree and a CPA license, I am not uneducated. But Trump still appealed to me for many many reasons, and I’m tired of liberals being prejudiced against me as a result. Prejudice comes in many forms, and today I’ve felt it from those who proclaim to “love all people” and “be open minded”. Thank you for not being one of those people, Emily.
Also, if you are a podcast listener, I recommend you check out the Cracked podcast’s episode from about a month ago called “Trump Country”. It’s led by two liberals who self-proclaimed during that episode that they will not be voting for Trump, but they did a FANTASTIC job delving into some of the demographic issues that have led to the support for a candidate like Trump. It was insightful and actually helped me put into words the gut feeling I’d had in the Midwest since the day Trump first started looking like a realistic candidate.
I’m the same as you politically. I have friends of all types and knew people who voted for each candidate. Because I have a master’s degree my liberal friends think
I’m the same as them and I’ve always felt that I could never share my beliefs without being condemned and called names. I’m not a racist, bigot, or any of the above…I’m adopting from Honduras for goodness sakes, but my beliefs have stayed hidden and never discussed bc I never liked arguing.
To echo so many excellent comment already made and show agreement with them, my view of effective government is to address economics and foreign policy in a fiscally responsible manner, putting the best interests of our country first. Legislating behavior and social issues should not be the main role of government – we the people, on the ground and in our communities, set that tone. I hold a master’s degree and find far more prejudice in my outspoken liberal friends that assume I agree with them and ridicule others who don’t, belittling the very people who serve the disenfranchised through their church’s soup kitchens and outreach programs. Not saying either side is perfect, there just needs to be a lot more understanding of each other’s view point.
The best comment I’ve read all year. Bravo!
I would still love to hear what those many reasons were, though. I guess really hearing some specifics would be helpful in trying to understand how life looks from your perspective.
Bless you Erica and your sweet, sweet heart. My vote was a vote against Hillary and her liberal ideologies which I respectfully and wholeheartedly disagree with. I’m someone who wants people to like me, and so sticking up for my conservative values among the liberal trends of today is scary for me but I do it. I was once extreme liberal and spent over a year and a half, while kid-free aka had the time, researching issues because I felt I was not well-informed. I looked at everything I could get my hands on right and left (I was a total nerd those 2 years, I’ll admit) and ended up with a change of heart and became conservative. We have so much to learn from each other. It breaks my heart to see that less than 24 hours after the results, so many liberals and media have already attributed his victory to racism, sexism and bigotry. Bless people like you and Emily Henderson who keep an open mind and heart. ❤️
So many of us “lefties” and the left leaning media have attributed his victory to people who don’t think sexism, racism and xenophobia are a deal breaker. That is deeply concerning to me as woman who is married to a Mexican man. What will happen to my husband during this presidential term? What obstacles will he face because the majority of the country thinks he doesn’t deserve to live here, despite him being born here, his mother being born here and Mexico not even being a memory in their lives? I think one thing that is incredibly frustrating for me is to see conservatives think of being called a misogynist or a racist as an insult equivalent to calling someone a dummy. It’s not an insult, it’s an adjective used to describe someone who is actively prejudiced against specific types of people. Stop being so condescending and telling Emily and everyone else “bless their heart”. How can you not see that so many people are actually terrified because they don’t know what will happen to them under Donald’s reign? Will I lose my healthcare? How many times will my husband be pulled over for being brown? Will he have to… Read more »
I voted for neither Trump or HRC, but instead for Evan McMullin. It is the first time in five presidential elections that I haven’t voted for the Republican nominee. I applaud your comment, Erica, because I can see honesty and truth in it, for the conservative and liberal alike (and everyone in-between). Let’s LISTEN to each other, and move forward with respect for each other. We cannot move forward with hate and anger.
Thank you for this Erica
YES
Another moderate conservative (voted for Johnson) here chiming in to say brava, Erica! The Obama years have not been rainbows and butterflies for lots of people. The lack of inclusion by the liberals regarding conservative thought is astounding. If liberals truly want to be inclusive (as they claim to be) they must include conservatives without name-calling (I.e., racist, uneducated, deplorable). Many conservatives are sick of not being welcome in discussions about progress. We conservatives are not comfortable sharing our views with liberals for fear of being labeled a bigot so many of us stay quiet. We must all work together and at least listen to one another if we hope to move ahead.
Claire, I agree with your point that liberals need to be more inclusive. But the ‘name calling’ issue is another matter. Trump has repeatedly espoused racist rhetoric in a public forum. This is undeniable and should not be minimized. And so by supporting his leadership you are sending a very public message that the racist undertones of his agenda are acceptable to our society. It’s a “guilty by association” predicament, and regardless of the fact that you (or other Trump supporters) are in fact racist in your personal life, there’s an inherent connection you’re communicating by entrusting him to represent you.
To clarify I meant to say regardless of the fact that you are [or are not] a racist…
Perhaps conservatives are left out of the conversation because they choose so base their belief system on a archaic notion of gods and temples rather than science, facts or truth? I have no interest in arguing right to choose with someone who’s only idea of right and wrong comes from a book written way before humans even knew the world was round. If you need a book to figure out basic right and wrong then you got bigger problems than liberals.
Thank you. You nailed it in about 1/20th of the words it took me to say it & ..far less eloquently than you.
Well said, Erica. Exactly.
I have been trying to wrap my brain around why someone would willingly vote for Trump. I have never heard of Emily, but a friend posted a link to this post and said I should check out the comments. I have to say with all the respect I can muster, just no. Every explanation is Liberal Vs. Conservative and a “moderate” piping in from time to time. When we start a conversation, and we start with boxing people in to these terms, I shut down. Allowing a platform for privilege to vocalize their pain and hurt via their liberal friends who are suffering post their decision to color in his bubble on their voting slip, perpetuates the very culture that now has him as a president. I honestly just can’t. I can’t a few days post the election. If people are closed minded and not open to hearing someone out who isn’t as progressive or ready for change, look at their reasons. I am a gay woman and I’m married to a Mexican-American woman, and my daughter is black. We are here today, we matter, and this discussion further reinforces even laced in rainbow and butterfly pleasantries, why my family… Read more »
Wow. You got me thinking about americas imperialism and how parallels can be made between imperialism and liberal/intellectuals meaning well with our progress, but discounting bigots as “other”.
Erica, you are great.
Fantastic comment.
As a liberal, who’s grown up in a liberal bubble, I want to bridge the gap.
This as so well said.
This Orange County neighbor feels the same way you do. It’s like being in mourning – the sadness, fear, anger. But there is a glimmer of hope in the fact that for the first time in years Orange County turned blue.
Hi Emily,
While I did not vote for Trump, my parents did. I tearfully called my mom this morning and asked her how she came to that decision.
My mom explained to me that although she does not like Trump as a person, and she does not condone his sexist/misogynistic/racist/hateful behaviour, she felt strongly that her vote should align with the Republican party, the party that most closely represents her beliefs. My parents are small business owners, and have always believed in small government. The past eight years have made them fed up with politicians, and (in their eyes) a corrupt, ineffective government.
Later on in our conversation I was getting a bit more belligerent and frustrated, and I began referencing pussies being grabbed, etc. She responded by mostly blaming the media for exaggerating this type of “locker room” rhetoric. She feels that Trump is a narcissist who says things without thinking, and the sexist jargon doesn’t align with his actions. She used his relationship to his children, especially Ivanka, to back this argument up.
Today I am sad, embarrassed, and disappointed in our country. I would like to continue respectful dialogue to better understand WHY.
Please do your research and you will find evidence of Bill Clintons multiple cases of misconduct with women including rape from back when he was governor to while he was president and after he left office. You will find evidence of Hilary’s degradation of these women that her husband abused as well as her own misconduct as a lawyer representing a rapist against a 12 year old girl who after she got off on technicalities she laughed about it. Question a lawyer who loses her license which Hillary, bill and both obamas have done. Hillary put our countries security at risk as well as our men and women that put their lives on the line for us. The Clintons repeatedly broke the law and felt like they were above it. While you do your research on the Clintons, something everyone should have done on their own versus letting the media tell us what they thought we needed to know or not know, pay very close attention to the clinton foundation and every one that donated to her campaign. When you have done your research you might want to call your mom back and apologize for your complete and total ignorance… Read more »
I recommend you too do your research. One glaring inaccuracy – Only Bill Clinton was disbarred (after the Monica Lewinsky scandal – not something to defend) Hillary and the Obamas let their licenses lapse, which is a choice and very different than “losing” their license.
Mary – can I ask what sources are you using in your Clinton Foundation research? I go out of my way to get my news from as many sources/perspectives as possible, but evidently we are reading very different versions of the story. I am genuinely curious. Thanks.
The New York Times (liberal audience) and
The Drudge Report (syndicated, conservative audience). Aaron, Here is an article that really made me look further into the actions of the Clinton Foundation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0
Another major topic to research is ‘Haiti Relief’ after the 2010 earthquake. There are many sources.
Check out the wiki leaks e mails dumped 2 weeks before election and google FBI investigations into Clinton foundation. She set up the server illegally to evade the freedom of information acts that could subpoena her documents. She destroyed them and scrubbed the server (she thought) at best she was incompetent but it is clear to me that she was criminal in her actions.
So glad you kept it kind and civil.
Neither of the Obama’s ever ‘lost their license to practice law’ – this is a myth propagated by opponents. Check out the truth on http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/the-obamas-law-licenses/.
Larger issue is that people often believe what they want to believe and are easily misled by false information circulated as truth (happens on both sides).
But, as Maya Angelou said, when somebody, such as our president-elect, himself makes the derisive comments about groups and actions he plans to take, we need to believe him. Many of us are frightened by this thought.
Should clarify, I am a responding to another Mary (should have used a different name…)
Very true, Mary. Unfortunately, now the mainstream media outlets are owned/controlled by a few. True investigative reporting is discouraged and whistle blowers are no longer protected. It is a lot of work to truly stay informed. You have to access multiple independent media sources to get a good understanding of the truth. It takes much time and is often disheartening.
Bill did lose his license, but the Obama’s and Hillary never did, check your facts.
Ok, I was reading your comment thoughtfully, but then I read your last sentence. That is out of line. Very rude.
So you assume that people who disagree with you are “totally ignorant?” Boo.
Mary,
Hilary did not laugh at the 12 year old girl who was raped.
Please read here:
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-freed-child-rapist-laughed-about-it/
Actually, she did. Listen to the audio for yourself at the bottom of the link http://insider.foxnews.com/2014/06/20/audio-hillary-clinton-laughs-while-discussing-defense-child-rapist. And snopes isn’t the best place to fact check. It’s run by a liberal husband and wife team from their home in San Francisco….neither have fact checking credentials! It’s very liberal leaning and many times inaccurate.
Well said, Mary. I would also like to add Benghazi to the list. And, if you ever saw her testimony, her sheer smugness and not taking responsibility for the 4th deaths was unconscionable. I have been following her since college and she is abhorrent. #1)Quick aside: I am Republican that believes in small government, which do the research on the debt. #2) Obama racked up more debt than all previous Presidents in office in our span of being the USA- that is a problem and look to other countries that have fallen to the crush of debt: Greece and many others. #3) Democrats lack of calling Islamic Terror for what it is and the real threat to our country. #4) Obamacare total failure and the outright lies put forth by Obama and the administration; good people lost their coverage and then were forced to seek health treatment under government guidelines; I cannot imagine someone controlling my health and telling me when and where…look to other countries that run the healthcare. England as a quick example. I went there at 19, and the people I lived with had to wait 6 months to see a Doctor for a knee problem. I’ve… Read more »
This is a very condescending way to speak to Lee. It’s disappointing, because all the comments I’ve read up to this point have actually been very civil. Here is an interview about the 12 year old rape victim she supposedly laughed at (she didn’t): http://www.npr.org/2016/11/03/500480069/the-story-behind-a-campaign-line-did-clinton-laugh-at-a-rape-victim
Mae accurately explains below that neither Hillary nor the Obamas have been disbarred.
You have a lot to say about the Clinton Foundation, but at the end of they day, they’ve helped 9 MILLLION people with HIV and AIDs, while Donald Trump will appear in court on charges of fraud in regards to his Foundation.
Actually, I’m not trying to condemn you in any way but the Obamas did not lose their law licenses. When he decided to run for President, they both voluntarily surrendered their licenses for obvious reasons (he was running). HRC also did not lose her license. This is completely false.
Bill Clinton lost his right to practice in AR but was never disbarred.
Just want to ensure you also have your research in check. It happens to be a point very often argumented incorrectly. However, anyone look into it and find that the claims are untrue.
Mary, Emily asked why you voted for Trump. Really, are these the reasons?
I suggest you do your research before spreading more untruths. Neither Bill, Hillary, or either of the Obamas were “lost their law licenses.” It costs thousands of dollars per year in fees and continuing legal education to maintain an active license in each state in which you are admitted. Most lawyers who aren’t litigating or advising clients have no reason to do so, and will go inactive. That’s what Hillary, Michele, and president Obama have done. And Bill agreed to a suspension in connection with the Monica Lewinsky investigation. This is not the same as losing a license.
Hillary was never accused of misconduct when she represented the alleged rapists – who, by the way, she was required by the judge to represent. She did her job; the state lost the case by losing critical evidence.
You can find all this through any reputable news source or even snopes.
Except you got all your information from rightwing sites. I am so tired of this double standard. But Commander in Chief pussy grabber is just fine with you. Double standard.
And everyone going on about being persecuted for their conservative beliefs seems to have completely forgotten what is was like to dare be proud of your progressive beliefs under Bush. The vitriol and hate was shocking to me. You were un American if you dared say anything against him or his policies. But now everyone is proud of voting for a racist, sexist, ignorant and hateful demigod, and they still feel they’re being persecuted. Cognative dissonance at its finest. But hey the boys at my kids school yelling grab them by the poussy to the girls, are just boys being boys. Hey they can even be president!
perfectly said, Shannon.
Well put Mary. I was raised conservative but tend to have more liberal views regarding abortion (pro-choice because not everyone’s situation is the same but appalled by late term or partial birth abortions), pro-LGBT rights but I’m also in the military so I am very pro-guns but also am appalled at how easy it is for criminals to get guns so I’m all for gun reform. I’d say I balance out in the middle but everything you just said about Hilary is what made me vote against her. As a working mother that has great maternity leave and daycare through the government as well as great insurance, I know I’m lucky compared to the rest of the country. I really liked some of her ideas in those areas so I was torn. But I kept thinking about Benghazi and the email scandal, which if I did what she did I’d be in jail and would have gone through court martial. Additionally, how are you going to debase the women that have accussed your husband all those years ago and then sit here and say that every victim of sexual assault should be heard and “we’re with you?”. Yeah no. I… Read more »
Ok, respectfully, the video about Hilary’s reaction regarding the 12 year old girl was edited and taken out of context- she was not laughing at the girl at all but in response to something else the reporter said. This is another example of how people have twisted the facts to make Hilary seem like a horrible person. And Fox News is the one who twisted that story. Sometimes the news is good but sometimes it’s not 100 percent reliable. Imho. She is a mother- why do people believe that she would act that way? You cant believe wholeheartedly what someone tells you or what you see presented a certain way. My grandmother was a well known feminist politician in the South and she knew the Clintons. They are not liars and rapists and I think it’s crazy what people will do to promote their own agenda, -and crazy what people will believe. Were you there? How do you know? I respect people’s decision to vote for whoever they want – it’s America. And thank you for being civil everyone! I was getting so depressed at seeing Trump supporters trolling all over the internet and saying things that I would never… Read more »
…ugh. this is just off. you start your comment by stating “do your research” but then among your comments you reference hillary laughing about a 12 year old girl getting raped. but if YOU do your research, you’ll hear that’s just completely off. the “laughing” you reference is in an interview where she’s talking about the case and awkwardly chuckling, uncomfortably, at the absurdity of it, and the system that allowed her to get the rapist off. it’s literally the ridiculousness of the system that she’s awkwardly chuckling at. it’s the exact opposite of what you’re claiming. the interviewer has stated he sees it that way, as has the girl’s lawyer. i could definitely see an argument where hillary needed to hold that case up as an example of a major problem in our judicial system, but that’s not what you’re saying and your comment seems to be a perfect example of what this blogger is attempting to get past.
This is not what happened with the rape trial. Do your research. Hillary was assigned the case and what is said here is not true.
I agree with your parents. The last two elections could hurt them and their small business pretty bad. It really hurt my family.
So The Bush years before the last 8 were good for who?
President Obama pulled us from the Great Depression.
Aly, Sorry but Fox News is a super conservative biased media source. No Snopes, no Fox News.
You can say you can’t use fox because it’s biased one way when the others are also clearly biased the other way. Journalist integrity it dead
I am Canadian and I have to be honest: I am baffled by the US electoral system. And by the latest election results and ESPECIALLY, by the media chaos that preceded the elections. I am thrilled to read the comments in this section because they accumulate to one of the few examples of what a calm, balanced political discussion can resemble nowadays. That being said, as a liberal, I don’t think that I will ever ever ever understand how anyone could vote for a candidate who has made such blatantly (and well-documented) sexist and racist statements, especially against women and minorities. I don’t think Hilary is a perfect angel (although, as far as the email stuff is concerned, I highly recommend listening to https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/601/master-of-her-domain-name) but I suspect that just about every politician has cut corners and made decisions that were based on ego and profit and that is unacceptable. But a politician who does not believe in equality for all is unforgivable. This is the 21st century. Are we really ok with bypassing basic human rights in favour of economics? Have we really become this self-centred?
A little background information on myself: I am a 45-year-old Mexican-American woman born to immigrant parents. They had seven children and we were very poor. Although I was born in Texas, I didn’t learn to speak English until second grade. My parents came here legally many years ago and worked hard in the fields as farm laborers. My siblings and I worked in the fields during the summers to help provide for the family. I give this background information to qualify my next comment. I don’t know Trump’s heart, whether he is racist or not. Maybe he is. But when he said that Mexico sends rapists and criminals, I didn’t take offense, because, to an extent, it is true. I didn’t take it to mean all Mexicans are rapists and criminals, but that some are. I took it to mean that having an open border is taking the risk that some of the people who come here are people who wouldn’t be allowed in otherwise. Of course a majority of the people who come here illegally are good, hardworking people. Beautiful people. And I understand their plight; in their shoes I would also come here illegally. But the problem is… Read more »
VS, I just wanted to take a moment to thank you so much for sharing a perspective that many of us don’t have. I could never put it as eloquently as you have, but I found your post quite encouraging. I voted for neither Trump, nor Clinton, (Johnson) but do consider myself a fiscal conservative (social liberal). I find that people often believe that those of us who don’t necessarily support quite so many social handouts are generally from a well-to-do background and just tight with our money, which, for me at least, is very inaccurate. As someone who grew up watching their mother work two jobs most of the time in order to put Hamburger Helper on the table, I know what people are capable of accomplishing when they are willing to work hard to improve their lives and the lives of their families. It’s really quite inspiring, and it’s what this country was built on; pure grit and determination. Big government diminishes the power of the individual by making us dependent. I’m not saying there is no room for assistance from the government at all, but sometimes I fear that people have forgotten about how adaptable, and powerful,… Read more »
Thank you for sharing this. I agree there are many good things about the welfare system and helping those in need, and having needed to participate in it for a time in my life has given me an inside perspective. But it is often taken advantage of. Those who identify with liberals have good hearts to want to care for others but there is an unhealthy dependence on government help. It’s purpose is to assist until one can move forward. It isn’t for generations to use continually and that is a major problem. I appreciated your personal viewpoint on this!
Well said
Thanks VS for sharing your story, and like others have it’s nice to have first hand experience-we can all say what you have said, but you have walked the walk!
Emily, thank you for asking in such a nice way and really taking the time to listen to people who did vote for Trump. We have a family divided, and it has been quite stressful around them, at times has been incredibly uncomfortable. My sister called up my college age daughter yesterday and attacked her for voting for Trump, which really upset her. I think everyone is entitled to their opinions and I for one am ready for a change as a small business owner. Thanks
VS, I could NOT agree with you more! I grew up on welfare and watched many of my own family members abuse the system. It became a career for them and now they think the world owes them something. I busted my butt to put myself through college and earn both a BS and a BA in four years. The system is beyond broken and I hope we can find a balance between helping others while also empowering them.
VS…yes to everything you said. This is why I voted for Trump.
VS, thank you so much for telling your story. I did not vote for Trump (or Clinton), but I respect your reasoning so much. I sometimes feel like politicians and pundits on both sides, in the name of building a base, try to argue that certain kinds of people should think the same way: all African Americans should vote this way, all immigrants or children of immigrants should vote this way, all LGBT people should vote this way, all lower class people should vote this way, all educated people should vote this way. I am a white cisgender woman from a middle class background, but I have seen some of my friends whose identity markers are not as “invisible” as mine be interpellated into a narrowly defined “automatic activism.” I don’t think it can necessarily be helped: if you’re gay, then to a certain extent you represent all gay people, for the time being anyway. Even as a woman, to some people I represent all women. (This is especially true if they don’t like something I say or do.) Your story shows how life experiences can inform people in distinct ways. I’m sure there are people with backgrounds similar to… Read more »
I am sorry, but VS’s story of women having babies to stay on welfare and receiving free phones… apocryphal. You had me going but you are a white dude troll.
Your comment was very compelling, until you used some falsehoods to support your position: the “Obama phone program” was actually passed into law by George W. Bush and enacted under his presidency (when it was known as SafeLink). The phone plans do not include data – just talk/text. Federal/state taxes do not pay for this service; it’s supported by a non-profit organization, although many phone companies do add a “universal tax” to your bill which gets contributed to the program.
Also: do you personally know someone who had a baby just to get welfare? Is it possible that someone thought the same thing about you as a single mom, or were you a special case?
OMG I love this! My husband is half Mexican and half Swedish and both of his parents are from Mexico/Sweden, and came here legally and did things the legal way. I think if he saw this comment, which he won’t because design blogs aren’t his thing, he would agree with everything you just said! His mom was a single mother in southern CA, one of the most expenesive areas in this country, and she worked multiple jobs to pay the bills and NEVER took handouts because she felt she didn’t need them. She worked, so why take free things? If my husband wanted something expensive like a gaming sytem or new shoes, she made him have a yard sale and sell his stuff so he could buy it himself. That sacrifice made him appreciate whatever he eventually bought because he had to work for it. I too and he as well, are against the handout system. Too many people abuse it and have no incentive to get off of it and of course aren’t going to bite the hand that feeds them and will continue to vote for whomever that is regardless of what they stand for .
Trump has promised to end the H1B visa and have a system to only hire American workers first, do you agree with this? Would love to have your perspective because a lot of immigrants who live and work here legally , have for years and even have families, use that system . Thank you 🙂
Thank you for sharing your story and perspective to help us better understand your vote. I found this really helpful as an outsider (Canadian) to comprehend why Americans voted the way they did.
So glad you were courageous enough to post this. Excited to see how others engage. <3
I did not vote for Trump, I felt I’d be going against my heart and beliefs in doing so. However, I did support that my husband voted for him. My husband works as a non-military contractor for the government and it is in his career’s best interest for us to have republican leaders. I don’t want to go into the hows and whys of that or start a debate but I do know that the people that I know did it for similar reasons. I am sad about the outcome for so many reasons but I believe in good people and pray that the people backing Trump can make up for what he lacks.
Thank you for sharing. That does help, honestly. xx
I don’t think electing a narcissistic misogynist president because you want to make more money helped me any. I hope you don’t have a daughter. I do, and I couldn’t elect or sit by passively if my husband wanted to elect someone president who would judge my daughter on a sliding scale as to wether she was a fat pig, or hot enough for a groping, just because I want more money in my own coffers.
Please be respectful.
Sorry, I actually thought that was respectful, and more importantly an opinion. I could have wished her fig leaf would die. I was expecting to see someone deciding to vote for Trump because they thought it was good for the country, not voting cause they thought they may get a pay hike.
Hi Katy, today is a really hard day for Clinton supporters — it honestly feels like a death in the family. We have to remember that everyone believe they are the good guy and remind ourselves that most people are doing the best they can. I don’t think members of the military (or contractors, etc.) were voting for a Republican out of greed, but because they believe that their jobs will be safe and they’ll be able to protect their families. We all vote based on what we think will be best for us. It’s hard to look at the country as something beyond our own lives. As devastated as I am by the result, as sickened as I am by the rhetoric of this election, we have to stay empathetic. There are people who voted for Trump because they hold discriminatory beliefs, but there are also people who voted for Trump because they are scared for theirs and their families’ futures.
Thanks Ashley, I had actually gotten to a better place, but that took me back. For me Hillary wasn’t the other candidate, she was my dream candidate for 20 years. It makes me so sad to think this place in history won’t be hers. More importantly it makes me ashamed to think of the Obamas handing over the office to the Trumps, it is a slap in the face. In other words, it is too soon for me to engage. I need to chant some more mantras or something. Again, thanks for kindly bringing me a bit back!
Thank you Ashley for your open mind, that is very true for the people I know here in the Midwest. I am a democrat that has a background in environmental conservation and education in third world countries, married to a republican working for the department of defense. Understanding perspective keeps me sane.
I actually don’t think that we should just be voting for what is best for ‘me’, ‘my family’ and ‘people like me.’ We should be voting for what is best for the most people and the country as a whole and long term health as growth. This me me me culture put minorities in danger, and people’s possessions and ‘right’ to carry weapons that kill are NEVER more important than someone’s life. It is also really upsetting to someone who is not American to realize how much the American people have been uneducated about their own system. The poorest people in rural areas (his demographic) will be hurt the most by his policies. No Obama couldn’t fix a very broken system in 8 years, but at least he was working towards long term change and a solution. Trump is going backwards and we will continue to watch disparity grow.
A pay hike? No, he just wants to keep his job. And as someone working to defend our country he does believe that what he voted was what’s best for our country because he is not the only one who does this kind of work. Trust me I get why you are upset but please don’t be presumptious or cruel. It wasn’t easy for me to accept that this was his decision, but it was his to make and I respect it and try to have an open mind. Also, I do have a daughter who is loved dearly. I cried quietly in my car this morning for both my children just like so many of you have. I also work hard for them everyday at my own job and do a lot for my community in the hopes that I can be a good example. I know that the vast majority of people voted for him for political reasons DESPITE the ignorant comments he has made and the terrible things he has done and certainly not because of them. Trump may be sexist and racist but please don’t forget that he didn’t create sexism or racism. People that have… Read more »
Thanks for such a thoughtful and calm response Lisa.
Lisa, thank you for your thoughtful, articulate perspective. As a Canadian, I – along with everyone I know up here – am reeling, and having a hard time understanding how so many Americans could vote for what’s amounted to a moral dumpster fire. It’s so refreshing to have a reminder that for many the vote wasn’t for Trump – was actually in spite of Trump – but in the service of the Republican values that do align with their beliefs.
Just because we didn’t create racism and sexism does not mean we should support it. We need to be better. I’m so so disheartened by this, ‘well that’s how lots of people talk or feel’. If that’s true we should be doing everything we can to change that, NOT supporting it or sitting there doing nothing.
As a military officer, who has been in combat several times, I am truly scared for what position he will be putting our military in. We do not need to enter into any more conflicts and I feel his brash personality/temperament will definitely lead to more conflicts. I’m also extremely nervous about his relationship with Russia. As a woman who has worked 8 times as hard as the men to get to the position I am in (one of only 4 women ever have the job I’m in) I am truly saddened and completely disheartened for all women, but mostly for young women, I really feel his policies and personality/thoughts towards women will set us back 30 years from all the progress we have made.
I’m sorry, but my husband is a Marine. What you’re invoking is that Republicans are more interested in wars and spending money on the military industrial complex than Democrats. Your husband makes his living off that dynamic. So does mine.
He also joined the military to defend our freedom, and I’m sure that your husband has similar motivations. However, your argument is that your husband voted for Trump because Trump will provide him with a job and with a paycheck. I know many members of the military voted for Trump for ideological reasons and because they are ‘hawks’, in that they believe in a proactive defense of our nation and our values. Fine.
But please. You’re admitting that your husband voted for, as you put it, a sexist and a racist, for job security. You’re more than welcome to put your economic interests above all else (and I will decline to get more specific lest I devolve), but that’s what you are both doing. Don’t pretend otherwise.
Lisa, have younor your husband read the information Trump had released for his first hundred days in office? It includes an immediate hiring freeze on all federal employees. It is quite possible that agencies will drop contractors in an effort to save the civvies.
Katy I’m in the same boat. Unlike most college students I know, I supported Hillary from the beginning and truly respected and admired her for so many reasons. I looked forward to having a female president and I wanted it to be her, but I don’t think I realized how important it was to me. I’m absolutely devastated and having such a hard time understanding the other side at this point.
Katy, I’m in the same boat. Unlike most college students I know, I supported Hillary from the beginning and truly respected and admired her for so many reasons. I looked forward to having a female president and I wanted it to be her, but I don’t think I realized how important it was to me. I’m absolutely devastated and having such a hard time understanding the other side at this point.
“I am sad about the outcome for so many reasons but I believe in good people and pray that the people backing Trump can make up for what he lacks.”
I’ll be carrying that with me, Lisa. Thanks for your thoughtful words. Stay strong. Respect to your husband as well.
I don’t believe she said that her husband voted for Trump because it might get him a pay hike. She said he works as a non-military contractor for the government. I don’t know exactly what his reasons are for thinking that Replublican leadership is beneficial to his career, but it could simply mean that it presents him and his organization with more opportunities to advance the initiatives on which they’re working. Just a thought.
I would NEVER condone voting for Trump and I’m devastated today, but it may not be just about a pay hike for that family. In some areas where government contractors are major employers, that woman’s husband could very likely totally lose his job if defense spending is scaled back. Yes, those people could find new jobs but the fear of being laid-off from an otherwise great job is very scary for most people. Most Americans don’t have 6 months worth of savings to fall back on.
So, I have often struggled with the whole “small government is better” Republican line. Every time governments (city, state, or Federal) have to cut jobs or pay, that’s someone’s neighbor who is losing a job or salary. Not just people employed in defense related work.
it may be more of a case of a job in jeopardy than a pay hike. wanting to preserve an income to support an family is not the same as being greedy.
It’s actually truly horrendous to wish someone’s fiddle leaf fig dies. Mine died recently after desperate attempts to try to save it. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy…
Nicole! I don’t know if it was your intention, but that was the first time I laughed today – thank you!
LOL, literally laughed out loud at work. Thanks!
New needed that! Thanks!
This is literally the only thing that has made me laugh, or even remotely smile, today. Good job, Nicole. 🙂
haha that made me lol. thanks for the laugh nicole
I agree as I desperately try to keep my fiddle leaf fig alive!!
That’s hilarious.
thank you for that, nicole. 🙂
and thank you, emily. you are to be commended for opening this fascinating dialogue.
xx
Uh-huh. Meanwhile, people who voted FOR her (and Obama for the last 8) because they wanted free healthcare and free college and free ALL THE THINGS aren’t selfish, right? And someone who started a charity to sell her access to the State Department to line her personal pockets, that’s not selfish, right? It’s not selfish to take 30-40-50% of someone’s paycheck, but how DARE that guy want to keep what he has actually earned, right? It’s not selfish to want to better your life, to take care of your family. It’s natural. The defense cuts have been devastating to people that work for subcontractors. Don’t you Hillary voters know anyone who lost their job in the last 8 years? Or who wants a job, but can’t find one? Anyone who’s health care bill has tripled while their coverage has declined? Anyone who lost someone in a shooting by an extremist? These are real issues to real people. And they have been caused by the policies of the left. People on the left are some of the most judgmental, selfish, bigoted people I’ve ever met, and the inability on that side to see that Hillary Clinton’s massive corruption and flagrant disregard… Read more »
I totally agree with your first paragraph Deb.
Truly you are frightening. God save us all
Perfect!!! Thank you.
YES! THIS!
I feel like it’s a lost episode of House of Cards starring the Kardashians…
I’ll wear black today and black on January 20th and wonder how many racist/bigoted/ignorant people really do live in the USA. I though they were a dying breed. Obviously I was VERY wrong.
Yes!!!! thank you for this.
Yes!!!! All of this and more!!’ I couldn’t be more happy and woke breathing a sigh of relief. I’m so glad I no longer have to worry about being like Germany and building a wall inside my city to keep my family safe from refugees or fear becoming a socialist country like poor Venezuela and have a black market for toilet paper. Yes, those things are real and are happening and I truly felt we were headed that way.
Deb, I take serious issue with your first paragraph. I voted for Obama twice not because I personally benefitted from free healthcare and free college, but because I believe that universal healthcare is a benefit we should all receive, regardless of income. Without it, lower-income children will never get a chance to make something of their lives, and they don’t choose to be born poor.
You are so on point. Illegal aliens are not a race so calling someone racist because they want to uphold the LAWS of our country is ridiculous. What is racist is blaming whites for anything but as soon as a white person points a finger we are deemed racist!!
Please, everyone and anyone who voted for Clinton do just a bit of investigating on your own and find out the horrible and illegal things she and her husband have done.
No one at all is perfect, we alll have done or said something regrettable but to do what the Clintons have done over and over for power and profit while hiding behind the mask of do Gooder is disgusting, unethical and in American!!
And ps, anyone who voted for her because she is a women is as bad as voting for someone because they are a man or black or white. Racism and sexism come in many forms. Hypocrites have a real hard time seeing the difference.
I understand what Deb is saying and I’m glad she posted all of this for our consideration. However, I hope she understands that a lot of what she said is just wrong. For example, health care. Donald Trump will not help health care costs lower unless he is going to propose a single-payer system. That is the only thing that will help lower costs and keep it accessible. Health care was impossible before Obamacare (impossible to get because they could turn people away) and it will be impossible if they repeal it. Also, we have no idea what Donald’s policy on health care is because he didn’t tell us what any of his policies are. I won’t even address her seriously misguided comments on the Clinton Foundation. And finally, if you don’t like bigots then how could you have voted for the biggest bigot of them all? He is supported by David Duke and the KKK for God’s sake. That is a huge problem.
Deb thank you for saying that so well! We appreciate you representing us (we being the ones that aren’t with the liar and criminal Clinton) so thoughtfully!
Hi Deb. Just to let you know you are more likely to die from a gun (non terrorism relat e)than from a terrorist attack. In the last ten years a little over 300 Americans died from terrorism and over 300,000 died from guns. It’s easily found online. And refugees support and grow the economy. If you look up and find the real facts (not o. Fox News) you will see that. All the best to you.
Deb, It seems you missed the section of the post where we asked to be RESPECTFUL. Asserting that all liberals are judgmental, selfish and bigoted is absurd and offensive. I voted for President Obama and Secretary Clinton because I want to live in a country that respects the rights and beliefs of ALL people, not just people that look and think like me. It’s impossible to find a perfect candidate, so I have to utilize a weighted grading system – respect, diplomacy and inclusiveness rate extremely high on my scale. If you’re interested to learn about the other side, I can tell you that I have benefited from the Affordable Care Act for the last three years – it doesn’t afford me FREE healthcare, but it did allow me to take a job at a small non-profit that provides orphan care and orphanage support projects in Africa in Central America. We’re not yet at the point where we can afford to provide healthcare to our employees, but I believe so strongly in the work we are doing and I’m grateful to be able to be a part of the organization, fight for marginalized and underserved children in the world, AND… Read more »
Amen!! Finally! That’s exactly why I voted for him!! Sick of all of Hillarys nonsense
As a moderate who leans liberal, I feel like you could literally insert “conservative” or “republican” into the paragraph you just wrote…. Eye of the beholder, huh?
Absolutely on point!
I couldn’t agree more with each of your reasons. The fact that you are all so devastated is understandable, because you Hillary/Obama supporters probably do live in relatively isolated bubbles.
You obviously concluded that most people think as you do and feel as you do, so this jolt back to reality has been really difficult for you to fathom…”how could everyone not believe what you believe is reality in the U.S.”
I have to ask, honestly, what was Hillary going to do for you?
Just as you Hillary support people feel right now in your inability to understand how any reasonable person could support Trump – it is equally unfathomable to we Trump supporters, to understand how anyone could possibly see anything positive in Hillary Clinton.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/11/01/prominent-economists-including-eight-nobel-laureates-do-not-vote-for-donald-trump/
Well said, Deb.
You hit the nail in the coffin about real people with real issues! I don’t any of my liberal friends understand that! They also sure never understood what it was like for my husband and I to booth get laid off in 2008!
I voted for Obama twice, and voted for Hillary yesterday. I am an independent contractor and am very fortunate to have the means to pay for my own health insurance. Until obamacare, I was NOT able to obtain an independent policy because I have a pre-existing condition. This is a huge concern for me whenever I hear pols glibly saying they want to repeal ACA. by the way, most people have to pay a portion of their premium (like those who get insurance through a job with benefits). It is not a free handout!
What happened to respect, Emily? Much less offensive and more truthful commenters have been warned.
Well said!
All of this sums it up. Clinton is corrupt beyond any presidential candidate in history and people who support her are ambivalent toward it (the corruption). THAT is frightening.
I don’t know anyone who’s lost a job in the past 8 years. In fact, my experience has been quite the opposite. I’m originally from Michigan. My parents still live there, and almost all of my male family members are laborers (and largely Italian immigrants): construction, cement, tile workers. My dad was laid off when I was in high school/college, from 2002 to 2010, more often than he was working. But after Obama started to fix Bush’s mess, he started working again, and he is now nearing the end of his best working year of his life–for the third year in a row.
As for me, I graduated in 2010. It took me and many of my friends a year or more to find a job, but now we are all doing well. (And we were able to get health insurance after we aged out of our parents’!)
Obama was amazing for the economy. Hillary would’ve continued to help. Trump will only hurt us: https://www.google.com/amp/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2016/11/9/13572172/donald-trump-white-working-class?client=safari
Thank you, Deb. You said it so well!!!
I wouldn’t dream of defending trumps words but the one criticism I find ridiculous is equating his “grab em by the pu&&y” to condoning sexual assault! I think of it as more in line with the saying “grab em by the balls”. Meaning women who are attracted to money and power throw themselves at him all the time or look for favors or help with their start-up business and he is bragging about that.
agree with deb, thank you.
ALL caused by policies on the left?! I’m pretty sure the Republicans were part of the government in the last 8 years too…except for they weren’t willing to do any compromising. And now you are asking Democrats to be open minded? That’s a little hard to stomach.
Deb…yes, yes, yes….1000x’s yes!
“…I could have wished her fig leaf would die”
High five to that!
KT Trump actually rolled out a very specific 7 point plan on how he would fix healthcare while repealing Obama care. It was actually very detailed and made perfect sense… It wasn’t millions of pages long requiring it to be passed before it was read. It is actually pretty darn amazing. If you are interested in learning about it here is the link https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform
He also will be bringing Ben Carson to the table to help with healthcare reform… An Actusl Brain surgeon… Not a paid politician with alternative motives and no medical back ground. I voted for Trump because his policies are for the people, he is already a multi millionaire who really isn’t looking for monetary gain off the backs of hard working Amercans. He understands economics and will listen to professionals in all walks of life to make America thrive. Personally the thought of my daughter having to see Hillary as the first woman president with all her lies & corruption made my stomach churn so I feel confident in my vote.
You shouldn’t assume it’s for a pay hike. Maybe it’s job security? Maybe her husband is the breadwinner and their livelihood would be st stake if Trump didn’t win. It could be any number of reasons. I think we should try to not be so quick to jump to conclusions.
Your comments are quite hateful, and honestly strongly evocative of why people voted against HRC (and, ergo, for DJT). It’s not about more more dollars in already full pockets, it’s about dinner on the table. It’s about, despite the ACA, being unable to afford insurance premiums with deductibles that are higher than a used car. Trump supporters are easily dismissed as ignorant, uneducated, sexist, racists white people. The truth is – yes, they are probably uneducated and white, and SOME are sexist, ignorant and/or racist. BUT these are people whose plights are being ignored in the name of ‘progress.’ What does it matter that HRC VOWED, seemingly uncaring as to the effects it would have, to put people out of jobs (e.g., coal miners who are already struggling, defense industry) for the sake of “progress” or “change.” HRC didn’t tell the LGBT crowd, yep there’s bigotry in the world, you’re just going to have to deal with it. But that’s precisely what she did with the voters who went Trump. Yes, many of them are white males (and automatically, we associate privilege with that), but they are also hard-working people whose livelihoods have been forsaken for other, more “worthy” causes.… Read more »
If you are hurting today try to console others instead of spreading hurt. Please consider how hurtful it is to hear others virulently disrespect your views. It’s one thing to say “i think___” or “I made this decision because____” and it is an entirely other thing to say “How dare you do ____” or “You are wrong”.
This country is free because individuals can make decisions for themselves. Freedom is always encroached when some try to make decisions for others.
“They refuse to remain forgotten, and they showed it with their vote.” This is pretty well said, BettyB! As someone who did not vote for Trump, I personally have a hard time understanding people who can’t understand why anyone would vote for him, especially when Clinton was the other option. As Bernie Sanders so eloquently explained, bigotry must not be tolerated. But to dismiss, ignore, or demean entire groups of people because they are white, uneducated, working class, Midwestern, or Southern is just as bigoted as dismissing, ignoring, or demeaning entire groups of people because they are, say, poor or Muslim or female or black. White privilege is real, but there are degrees–step away from Twitter and take a drive through the rust belt, and you’ll see. These are not the 4chan bros or the ironic fascists who voted for Trump as some kind of laugh or to hurt others. This election showed that a very large portion of the population felt dismissed for the last 8 years or longer–by Washington, by the media, by urban liberals, by academia, etc.–and wanted something different. Maybe Trump isn’t the answer (he’s disgusting, and I think a lot of people who voted for… Read more »
But you could elect a woman who sat by her lying, cheating husband while she called women trailer-trash, narcissistic loony tune, bimbos?
And speaking of money in coffers, what about the Clinton Foundation and foreign donations?
Both of these candidates are imperfect human beings.
Right, and that’s why we had to vote based on issues and not candidates. I resent the assault on my character based on my vote. I care about all human life and the future of my children. Just because we are for immigration reform does not mean we don’t want immigrants in our country or our kids to grow up in a rich, diverse country. I, for one, am living in an area where the drugs are pouring in and based on what police have told us is coming directly from Mexico and Columbia. We are small business owners and I want my children to have that option, not just corrupt government big business and welfare. I completely agree with your mother, Emily!
If you care about all human life, then how could you vote for a president who doesn’t care about minorities, and a Vice President who believes in conversion therapy for LGBQTAI people and was directly responsible for the suicides of hundreds of gay teenagers?
It’s not about the money. I too have a Military husband and it’s more about policy. Please, we do not make a lot of money- we do it to serve our country and we need to be able to stand behind our leadership and trust them with classified information, our foreign affairs, our military, etc.
You couldn’t vote for Trump because of words, but you could put Bill, the abuser, and Hillary the destroyer of his victims, back in the white house. My oh my! I’m a teacher, and his actions with Monica, caused junior high kids to think that oral sex was just fine. #1, I would never vote for a member of the Clinton crime family, and her proposed increase in taxes would destroy the economy that Obama has not improved. He was the first president to never get to 4% growth. Very few full time jobs were created in the 8 years, mostly part time to avoid the disaster of OBAMACARE. She also endangered our national security with her server, and she is set up for blackmail, since at least 5 foreign bad guy countries probably have some emails. Her policies along with Obama’s in the middle east resulted in that area being on fire with ISIS spreading world wide. I voted for Trump because of his tax cuts, the repeal of OBAMACARE, and bringing jobs back to America . Illegal immigration is also out of control, and many are committing horrible crimes, and the Muslim refugee mess is costing billions, and… Read more »
Trump’s rhetoric encourages hate crimes and sexual assaults, but you’re worried about teenagers thinking oral sex is okay? Flabbergasted by your priories, here.
Exactly. WTF is wrong with people? Crawl back under your ‘sex is bad’ rock, lady. You are severely misguided.
I wouldn’t dream of defending trumps words but I think the criticism over the “grab em by the pu&&y” comment is ridiculous. I think of it in terms of the “grab em by the balls” saying. We wouldn’t consider that encouraging sexual assault. I am pretty sure there are many women who are attracted to money and power who throw themselves at trump and this “grab em by the pu&&y” remark is a way of bragging about that. Meaning he has lots of opportunities with women.
Oral sex *is* just fine. Your comment makes it sound evil and like something to avoid and not be taught in health class. *That* mindset is a massive problem.
Presumably, though, you’re referring specifically to the fact that it was both adulterous and ‘on the job’ when Bill and Monica were gettin’ after it. Those two things are a problem, not the fact that two consenting adults engaged in *gasp* oral sex. Even the fact of *where* they chose to partake in the activity is not necessarily a problem. Ideal? Good judgment? Sanitary? Probably not. But if you think all other and all future president/first lady (husband and wife) didn’t/don’t have all different types of sex in and around the white house, you might be both delusional and a bit boring. And that says nothing about the very likely fact that plenty of others are probably getting it on all over the white house on the regular.
But you could elect a woman who “stood by” as her husband had an affair in the White House? First of all what comes out of his mouth is a far cry from his actions. He is a public figure yet we have not photo or video proof he has ever actually done any of the stupid BS he has mouthed about. I am not willing to judge him on words alone. Hillary LIED to the American people over and over! And it is on tape! I do hope he can deliver on his promises… I am not a bigot or racist but we have laws for entering this country and if we allow those laws to be broken what other laws will be next. Our police and military deserve respect! My husband is a disabled vet who has had to deal with the VA for almost 15 years. If your medical care was as bad you would switch but they don’t get that option. This country has two economic groups rich and poor. Where is the middle class? Shrinking away… even college educated are finding it hard to get jobs. I think the biggest issue is people today only… Read more »
I did not vote for Trump, but for Hillary Clinton as did anyone in my small Department of Defense Contractor company except for one person who would never vote for a Democratic because of taxes and is very open about it as her husband is a lawyer and she is a CPA. (This morning has been one of the most somber I have every seen except when we entered work after the much more tragic loss of life do to the space accidents.) I have worked here for 16 years and 85% of our business comes through the government. During the last Bush term we lost 28 of our 50 employees because of government mandates but for the last 3 or 4 years can barely keep up with the work load.
Unfortunately not all facts are actual facts or hold up across the board.
Victoria- I don’t presume to know everything about how politics affect government jobs, professionally my husband and I are from two different worlds. I’m sure there are very different circumstances and types of contractor positions. He works at an Air Force Base in cyber security and is currently at then end of a 10 year contract with his company and going to another company with a $20,000 pay cut and his office is very understaffed- people went to the private sector for job security. We know a lot of people that do similar jobs but work under different goverenment contract companies and the experience seems to be different for everyone.
Thanks for this. My mother works for a federal department, and they have contract workers, too. But they were cut under Bush, and have risen under Obama. She has been given a lot more leeway in her job to pursue innovation under Obama than she did under Bush. She is close to retirement and will probably leave when Trump comes into power (I still can’t believe I’m typing that).
I wish the original poster had explained a bit more why her husband believed his job security would improve under Trump, and not under Clinton. That seems to go against what I know.
Republicans have historically been more in favor for military spending, increased military spending was part of Trump’s agenda. This in the long run means more work at the military base a lot of people in my city work at. The exception to this would be in times of recession or in an effort to bring down taxes.
I think people like Lisa may actually have BOOSTED the Trump vote! A lot of voters had low opinions of both candidates and one side was repeatedly shamed, being told they were sexist, racist, and stupid. People are sick of being told what is the right way to feel. I’m a Trump hater living deep inside a liberal bubble, though within the circle of trust I know secret Clinton haters. That’s right, seemed like there were a lot of those, judging by how off the exit polls were. They remain quiet because upon trying to voice an opinion, they are immediately dehumanized with a label, at which point their opinions are invalidated and no debate is possible.
Shoot, I meant Katy, one of the first responders to this particular thread.
Interesting thread, given that Hillary Clinton has always been a total hawk! I voted for Jill Stein in a heavily blue state, but I have spent many years in Republican strongholds, so I get it. Funny, though, that Trump voters wanted “change,” and he’s giving them Gingrich, Christie & Giuliani. Defund education for decades, and this is what you get. His supporters aren’t evil; they’re vulnerable, and he scooped them up. God help us all!
I agree – I’m seeing so many people who are angry about the election and are calling everyone who voted trump “ignorant idiots” “uneducated f–ks” and worse….. and this is supposedly from people who are against “hate” and “intolerance” and supposedly support all human rights and freedoms???? And they are acting and talking with the least tolerance and love that I’ve ever seen?
I’m a New Zealand watching this from the other side of the world but trust me, it’s all our media has been talking about for months (and yep, our media strongly supported Hilary and defamed Trump in every way possible), and I find this reaction from Hillary supporters really confusing.
I can’t imagine if Hilary had won that Trump supporters would be bashing the winners with hateful terms like this…. so what I’m seeing is “the left” in America being really intolerant and sore losers. At the end of the day the people voted and that’s how the system works.
Anyway, that’s been my observation so far but yeah, I am really really glad not to be an American right now 😉
Amy M, you nailed it.
It’s sad to me how blinded people are by hatred and fear that they fail to see their own hypocrisy, as you just articulated so clearly.
I did not vote for Trump. Neither did I vote for Hillary. Both are despicable to me and I had to make a decision I could live with, and one in which I could look my 13-year-old daughter in the eye and discuss.
However- I believe that the media spin has made both into bigger monsters than we would believe about them, if we could just get/look at the facts. I think Trump will do a good job with jobs and tax reform, which I think will encourage prosperity as we haven’t seen it in a long time. I am choosing hope and possibility.
I heard an interview with JD Vance this morning (wrote the memoir “Hillbilly Elegy”) and his view was that people voting for Trump are largely not racists, but are working class folks who feel very let down by the last 8 years of empty promises of hope and change. He may be onto something.
We need to come together, not steep further in our anger.
That’s exactly how it is! Those of us who voted for Trump had to do it silently, because God forbid we rile up the Liberals. I’m half Spanish, and the media has bashed Trump and glorified Clinton everywhere in Europe which is giving everyone a skewed view of reality. There’s a reason why so many Americans voted for Trump in the silent vote; it’s tiring to hear all of the hatred from those that are spewing more hatred than anyone else. The hypocrisy is unreal. I’m very glad you’re realizing this all the way from New Zealand, the media has omitted a lot of information that many are unaware of.
Ann M.,
At his rallies, Trump put members of the press in a pen and encouraged his supporters to yell insults at them. He mocked a disabled person. He brags about groping women. He threatens to put his opponents in prison. In sum, he is profoundly anti-social and anti-democratic in ways that none of the other candidates (of any party) were.
Trump supporters waved Confederate flags at his rallies. His campaign used anti-semitic materials produced by neo-Nazis. They beat people up, especially people of color. This was encouraged by the candidate himself.
The idea that we have to be tolerant of any kind of belief or behavior is very, very dangerous. My in-laws survived Nazi Germany (barely). They have seen this kind of thing before. They are life-long Republicans and they are very, very worried.
Respectfully, you have no idea what you are talking about. If Hillary won, black people in the south would be even more persecuted, perhaps shot, there would be literal militia uprising. My black friends in North Carolina woke up to swastika graffiti on buildings and confederate flags (basically, as bad as a swastika) on trucks because of the joyous celebrations. Hillary supporters are reacting to a campaign that was full of misogamy, hate, bigotry, and bullying. I feel the right to call a Trump supporter an uneducated fuck because I have yet to meet one who can explain to me how is their world going to get so much better, what policies did they support (NONE! he HAD NONE!), and what progress do they hope to see (NONE, he doesn’t believe in science!) Notice that we had Bush for 8 years, and another Bush before that, and none of this was happening. I wonder why? Because each articulated things that he was going to do; he didn’t laugh at disabled, he didn’t talk about grabbing women’s pussies, etc. You must see how clear that is? We will unite, we will move forward but now, now, let us remind those that… Read more »
Mae, I think you are onto something. I wouldn’t paint all liberals with this brush like some do, but I have a very intelligent and articulate coworker who nonetheless *cannot* tolerate disagreement. I once witnessed someone ask her a question about the refugee crisis, and she was so outraged that anyone would even have a question rather than already hold the same opinion about it that she did that she called him an idiot and refused to engage with him. How shortsighted of her to resort to name-calling as opposed to taking the time to answer the question, explain her position, and possibly change a mind! I was heartened by all the “love trumps hate” messaging right after the election, and I generally regard the people protesting the outcome as people who care about the country and want what’s best for it and its people. But when I see the media and disappointed Clinton supporters revert almost instantly back to claiming that anyone who voted for Trump as a racist, a misogynist, or a fascist, I cringe, not just because I think that is a gross oversimplification, but because they are working against their own interests by doing so. So… Read more »
My husband is retired from the military and he notes just the opposite re: a R President over a D President. Also good to remember that the R majority in our government stopped them from working and getting paid during the sequestration.
Actually, the wiki leaks proved that it was hillary’s campaign that planted the racist materials and started fights. She coluded to disrupt and disturb views of Trump and his supporters. Irrefutable evidence in e mails from john Podesta.
My husband voted for Trump strictly based on what he has promised on policy and lowering taxes…he agrees that Trump is not polished-but he also couldn’t stomach Hillary.
Thank you so much for posting this question. After crying hysterically this morning, I am ready to come to a place of understanding. I want to do the work, the hard work, of trying to heal. We may be broken, but I do believe that we can rise together.
I woke up so angry and then i decided to live by Michelle Obama’s words, “when they go low, we go high”. I actually congratulated people I knew who supported him. It made me feel good, actually I am not ashamed to admit, it made me feel superior.
It is also a huge wake up call for liberal democrats, we can no longer be idle, we need to organize, volunteer, and contribute.
On a side note, had he lost they would have claimed it was rigged, and worse yet made him a martyr like figure. He had no excuses to fail in four years , and he said “believe me, I am the only one that can fix this”. Let’s sit back and watch him fail with a Republican Congress and House, and supreme court to fill….believe me, he will.
At least now we get to see his tax returns, cause didn’t he promise that?
How does this attitude help anyone? Why not try to help him succeed? After all whether you like it or not he is OUR president and his success is OUR nations success. As a side note, I did not vote for Trump, I simply do not understand this desire to watch our country crash and burn.
I don’t desire it, but I predict it, that is why I voted for Hillary. Where did I say it was my hearts desire? What power do I have one way or the other?
I’m with you on this. A full Republican slate – house, senate and presidency. This will be a real experiment in truly enacting a Republican vision. It has taken the country 8 years to get to where we are, with the level of economic recovery that we have. We’ll see what the proposed tax cuts, and proposed spending decisions and proposed elimination of Obamacare really do to those that voted for him. My prediction is it won’t end well (exhibit A, the Bush recession).
This is my main concern too – that the country will see what Republic policies really do for the American people, and I don’t think it will be good. I think this is why the country was so ready for Obama when he became elected, because people were realizing that the Republican agenda isn’t good for the country. Just feels like a huge bummer that we all forget so soon, and vote back in the Republican platform instead of continuing to make actual progress under a Democratic platform.
With all my heart I’m sending you love.
I’m far away from you all. I’m from Chile.
And very respectfully I’d like to say that you have a GREAT BEAUTIFUL nation and will never fall no matter what.
It’s so nice Emily that you have this desire to understand what is happening with an open mind and to share it here.
I have read a lot of great comments… Filled with passion and respect which is probably the combination that have made America what it is…
Mitch McConnell, senator from my home state of Kentucky, said after the inauguration of President Obama, “I hope he fails.” He and his cronies did all they could to obstruct progress. Just think how much we could have accomplished if they had worked together. He set the precedent for wishing failure on an elected official of the opposing party.
I’m not a Trump supporter. But why would we want to see him fail? Or the whole house or congress to fail? Don’t we all want the best for the country, regardless regardless who won? Should we all support with kindness and love, whoever won, even if it’s Trump? Should we all be united, more than ever?
Do you really want him to fail? When our country is already struggling? So four years from now, you can continue to be cynical and say, “I told you so!” You are letting you’re anger, pride and resentment get in the way of what could be true open mindedness. He has a gigantic job ahead of him! What if he succeeds?! What if we have a million small victories as a country because of forward motion? Because of change? He wasn’t my pick either. But I have faith in the people he has surrounded himself with and faith that he does love this country.
I think you touched on an important insight – the notion that our nation is struggling.
I believe that due to who we are as individuals, our answers are different.
Some supporters of Hillary saw a 4.5% unemployment rate and the fact that everyone has access to healthcare (affordable or not) as a sign we are doing well.
Some supporters of Donald Trump may have been displaced when factory work went overseas, and see that as a sign that we’re not growing here first.
I am praying that we can come up with a semblance of goals that please both sides of the aisle/ MOST Americans, and we can grow as one.
Yes Kas!
“sit back and watch him fail?” That is not the solution. If he fails, our country fails. I did not vote for him, but let’s dig deep down and find ways to support him.
Should I help him take away my reproductive rights, or help him make it so my sister can’t marry her girlfriend? Let me know.
What I will do is help him by actually paying taxes (pun intended), raising my daughter to be a decent human being who would never make fun of a handicap person or vote for someone that does, and by investing in my 401K (aka the Stock Market).
Again, do I “want” my country to fail? No way and no how, but I believe it will. That is why I voted for Hillary, cause I believed she would do the most as President. If you voted for Trump, you believed he would, and you thought Hillary would fail. It’s the same for every election.
Well, it’s not that we would like to see the country fail. But that’s the logic result of electing a notorious liar (just fact check people), a sexist, a racist, a person who has never in his life done something to benefit anything else them himself. He is a dangerous man, the whole world is watching and think this is a joke! But his voters don’t care that he is a danger for world-peace. Getting out of NATO, really?? My daughter was crying last night and asked if we are getting World War 3 now. Look in the history books! The uprising of Nazi Germany started the same way. And don’t say later ‘we didn’t know’. The last eight years have been a recovering of the previous horrible years under Bush. The country was in the WORST shape ever and Obama inherited the worst economic downfall. Now unemployment is the lowest since 6 years, etc etc. I can’t believe people really think Trump and his followers will do any good to the economy. He is the biggest fraud ever. But he, want to stay positive….
‘Sitting back and watching him fail’ means NOT supporting his policies that are literally going to ruin the country and the environment. Noone wants to watch the country fail but supporting actions that are harmful and supreme court justices that restrict the freedoms we should all have IS helping our nation succeed.
I agree that it means not supporting his policies. Independent analysts have already been very clear that the fiscal policies proposed by Trump would increase the national debt. Today, The Economist (a right-leaning publication) reported that a Trump presidency will increase inflation and government spending without the capability to increase economic growth. In addition, they reported that his potential rejection of climate change could have devastating effects on the economy in the long-term.
That is why I hope he is unsuccessful as a president.
Right on, Kira
Yes, I expect, or hope, that is what people mean when they say they want a president to fail– they want the agendas/policies to not pass, because they believe them to be detrimental.
On the flip side, I don’t understand when people say they want an opponent to succeed…at what? The agendas which they believe to be detrimental? Do they just immediately change their minds about what will and won’t be good for the country?
I did not, but I know many who did. I have boiled their reasons down to
1) “I vote only GOP”
2) “Women cannot lead”
3a) “I hate the Clintons, they are a bunch of career politican scumbags who only care about their own personal gain
3b) “The US Government has let me down repeatedly over the last $X years, this is a chance to get somebody fresh in.
3a and 3b are both “anti-establishment” but for very different reasons I think need to be separated out.
Thanks for this…I never understood the “career politician” argument. If you’re going to build a house, you’re going to hire a Professional Architect, right? You aren’t going to hire a store clerk on the corner to engineer your most prized possession, correct? Using the same analogy, don’t we want someone that has been involved in politics and understands all the in’s and out’s in addition to where Aleppo is?
This is sort of a double-edged sword. With career politicians we have few or none who understand science and technology which are two of the big driving forces today. It also means that politicians are beholden to the party and that makes it more difficult to compromise or at least reach across the aisle.
I think “career politician” refers more to making all of your money through politics and less about experience. The Kennedys were a family of politicians but didn’t make (most of) their money that way.
i do not believe that more than a handful of people think that women cannot lead. i have certainly never known one and as an actively engaged citizen I can tell you that i have not heard one trump supporter or GOP voter say this. ONLY the media wants you to think that there are large percentages of people out there voting against women because they are women (instead of voting against them because they disagree with their views).
Yes!
Kimberly, I wish I could say the same, but I do know plenty of people who think a woman couldn’t lead. I definitely think this storyline was amplified during the election (what wasn’t?!), but there were undercurrents of anti-woman-in-charge rhetoric in a lot of what Trump and his supporters had to say. Even small-ish things like calling Secretary Clinton a “bitch” or a “nasty woman” — it might not always have been intentionally sexist, but it’s an unconscious bias that exists and that certainly played a part in this election. As one tiny anecdote, just yesterday a woman told my mother that she voted for Trump because after seeing “how incompetent” Brazil’s first female President was, she didn’t think a woman would be the right choice to lead the United States. On a different note, I voted for Clinton and I was a pretty awful person to be around yesterday. I cried and fought and insulted anyone who voted for Trump, and it did not make any difference, nor did it make me feel any better. After reading through posts like these (thank you, Emily!) and also several thoughts from other people I admire who are calling for inclusivity and… Read more »
I did not vote for trump, but my father in law did. He was mostly 3a, with a little 3b. He’s a struggling small business owner and thinks the current system is not set up to allow him to succeed.
He is, however, an Obamacare supporter. But even though he relies on it literally to save his life, he felt more strongly that Hillary is dishonest and withhold abuse the office for her own gain.
what’s he going to do when Obamacare gets repealed?
I did not and could not vote for this man however, my father in law did. My understanding is that he really resonated with #1 that Stacey listed above – he could not vote outside party lines and his goals for the country line up in terms of economic policies rather than social policies. All of Trump’s incompatibilities were written off as unimportant social ‘banter’ and character flaws. He never said this but, I think a lack of understanding and research into Trump’s full line of social stances (and history in business) played a large part. I also believe his strong traditional religious beliefs had a deciding factor on the main widely debated issues (gay marriage & abortions namely) and whether it is acknowledged or innate I do also think sexism played a role. I do not think that anyone who voted for Trump voted for him to hurt other people – no one votes to harm another person; we are far too self centered for that. They generally voted because they thought it was in their (economic?) best interests and the things that will effect them. For example, if they are not LGBT, they don’t have to ‘worry’ about… Read more »
It’s not as if the people he’s using to staff is cabinet are in any way anti-establishment. Also, I defy someone to coherently explain to me how an old white man who inherited a significant amount of his wealth and who has been able to take advantage of tax loopholes and bankruptcies for years could possibly be characterized as “anti-establishment”.
Okay, he has been in the private sector for a lifetime, not making a living off taxpayers, as career politicians do. If he has taken advantages of tax laws on the books to keep more of his own money, more power to him. An “old white man”….. as opposed to an also older white woman who assumed it was her turn since she didn’t make the cut earlier? Not to mention the cloud of controversies the Clinton family brings along on a regular basis. Also, isn’t Ben Carson, successful surgeon, anti-establishment? I am a woman who supported Trump, as Hillary is no champion of women I know. I remember clearly her mission to destroy a 22 YO, subordinate intern while knowing her husband’s wandering was truth if not for that infamous blue dress, not to mention all the money she has taken from foreign countries who do worse than imaginable things to women. Hope this is both coherent and helpful.
Jill, it is neither coherent nor helpful.
1) This is not a comparison. He’s been in the private sector of a lifetime. That doesn’t mean he’s anti-establishment. He has made his fortune by hobnobbing with the political elite, including the Clintons whom you seem to revile. This makes him both party of the establishment and the political machine.
2) Yes, and old white man. Not a comparison. I didn’t say that Hillary wasn’t establishment; I was challenging the statement Trump is somehow anti-establishment.
3) Controversies and other commentary re: Clinton? No question. But still irrelevant to Trump being anti-establishment.
He is choosing staff members who are old political players. That’s establishment. He inherited millions from his father. That’s establishment. He has filed for bankruptcy multiple times and was able to format those bankruptcies so that he kept his fortune. Again, establishment. You can keep trying, but you cannot deny that a group of people elected Trump on the basis that he’s somehow anti-establishment when the reality is that he is very much a part of the establishment.
Jill, I voted for Trump as well. I was very concerned about the appointment of another liberal judge. We are business owners and the Obamacare tax on business is horrendous. It’s 25% tax and pushing towards 33%. How can businesses survive?
You are absolutely wrong.
Wrong how exactly? This is open-sharing time… let’s hear it.
I think you summed it up nicely.
I believe that many are frustrated with the way government works today.
I saw an exit poll from voters saying that the majority of their congressmen don’t know what’s in the people’s best interest. And, another exit poll from congressmen/ people in Washington saying that they know what’s best for the country. The two sides aren’t necessarily copacetic.
I don’t know a single republican (and I know quite a few) who has said anything close to “women cannot lead”. That’s just silly. I think this is about many things, but not about female leadership.
You maybe right about the hate for the Clintons.
I live in the south and I think you nailed this, particularly A and 3A. I voted for Hillary but always worried about her as a candidate because the Hillary hate runs SO deep. I’ve never seen anything like it. I know Obama voters that voted third-party or stayed home. We fooled ourselves thinking that the fear of Trump would be enough to make people turn out and hold their noses to vote for Hillary, but clearly that wasn’t the case.
FWIW, I work in tech and live in a college city that’s pretty liberal for the south (HRC won our county), so I do understand how the bubble effect happens. But I also have plenty of friends and relatives that voted for Trump. These aren’t horrible people but they were fed the “Hillary is a criminal” story for 25 years so they were able to rationalize falling in line for the Republican nominee pretty easily.
Lucy: I don’t think the fact that Clinton is a woman is the reason she lost, but I do think it probably affected her overall likability, and thus in some way the hatred for her. I think there’s some truth to the idea that people tolerate and even respect certain things in male leaders that read as unlikable in female leaders. So it probably is a factor overall, at least in terms of sowing the seeds of doubt. I think she lost, though, because of the reason you hint at. I agree, the DNC believed that fear of Trump would force people to vote for Hillary, one of the most “establishment” candidates in recent history. It’s obvious that Clinton was the best candidate for Democratic politicians: she’s been in the game a long time and she knows how to play. But the DNC totally underestimated the degree to which voters wanted an anti-establishment candidate. They should have been able to tell from the surprising success of Bernie and Trump, but they wanted their gal and her protection, and they made sure she got the nom. To be fair, I don’t think the RNC can take any credit for Trump, since… Read more »
I did not vote for Trump, but my parents did. They live in a small, conservative state and there was no doubt that their state would go Trump. They wrestled with this decision for months. However, they are both very involved in the political scene and they deeply believe, and have researched enough and spoken with political insiders at the state & federal level to find evidence, that the Clinton’s are criminals. That was their reason.
I never really understood the ‘the Clintons are criminals’ argument as a reason to vote for Trump. Because Trump is too, and worse. (Sexual assault, not paying taxes, money laundering etc).
He legally didn’t pay taxes. There are loopholes that plenty of large companies use. He didn’t commit fraud.
except with his foundation. Where he did commit fraud.
THANK YOU!!!! I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Sorry my comment was in response to “Meg” not “Jill”.
People died before they could testify against the Clintons. Pretty sinister. Clintons gave scary secrets to China.
Do you know what evidence they found? I really want to understand. My husband voted for Trump and for the sake of our marriage, I want to see it from both sides. What did the Clintons do? The emails, the foundation, something else? And how does that compare with what Trump has done? His sexual assaults, his refusal to pay vendors, his university…
This is something I found on my Facebook feed today:
“Hillary Clinton is a classic TV/Movie villain. And for those of you crying that her criminality was “never proved” – yes, because she’s THAT kind of criminal. The kind that slips away from every charge and indictment, gets away with murder and corruption because she has THAT kind of friends, until HOPEFULLY the season finale. If that sounds familiar, it’s because she’s literally the living embodiment of the character in shows that cause you people cheer when they finally get caught and cry when let off the hook yet again by pulling strings – EXCEPT IN REAL LIFE.”
I’m not sure how true this is as I try to avoid the Clinton negativity, but some might find this to be the case.
And we all know how reliable Facebook is for providing facts, right?
I am also incredibly curious where this “criminal clintons” came from?? I honestly want to know. The foundation? The emails? Help me understand this. Yes they are a political couple but I am trying to see the “criminal” as it seems this was the main reason Clinton did not win. Give me proof/evidence so I can understand.
Here are just a few things they did: 1. In 1978 Hillary had massive personal profits from trading cattle futures (with the help of Tyson foods the largest employer in AK and huge donor to Bill) and in return Bill gave Tyson foods millions of dollars of state funded loans, company executives on AK state boards, favorable environmental rulings, and basically sold AK legislature. 2. Whitewater. She obstructed the billing records from her time as a partner in the Rose Law firm during the Watergate scandal to keep herself out of jail. 3. Before Bill left office, he made several controversial pardons from which Hillary’s brothers reportedly received large amounts of money from. 4. Numerous money scandals associated with their foundation. While Hilary was director, she filed Including tax fraud and gaining personal enrichment from a non-profit while serving as a US senator and as Secretary of State. Only 9% of the money in their foundation went to charity in 2013 while they funneled tens of millions to their personal bank accounts. 5. There are too many $ scandals to list but Peter Schweizer wrote a book called “Clinton Cash” that supposedly connects their personal fortune (besides their govt salaries)… Read more »
Hi Azrn! I had to correct this, AK is Alaska and AR is Arkansas. I grew up there, and people often get that wrong. Also, many people in Arkansas don’t like the Clintons, especially Hillary. She never fit the “mold” of a governors wife. The PBS doc “The Choice” touched on this.
this is super helpful. Whether its been proven or not, it helps me understand what people are suspicious of.
Thank you for your insight. Furthermore, If the Clinton foundation was really a charity, why are there still tent cities in Haiti? My dauaghter, who does short term missions guiding Haitian teachers in curriculum development, has seen no benefit from the Clintons. It’s rumored that the Clintons own Haiti, keeping them in poverty to control them.
This cannot be a real question. Are you seriously wondering if a failed university is a bigger issue than letting an ambassador die? Or having a private unsecured email server for the express and illegal purpose of avoiding FOIA requests? Or having your maid print out classified information? Or Anthony Weiner (that perv) storing hundreds of thousands of emails on his laptop, right by all the kiddie porn, no doubt? Only ever working for the government, but somehow amassing tens of millions of dollars in a few short years? Pay to Play? Any of this ring a bell?
Deb, Again, none of what you have posted is based in fact. What are your sources for all of these assertions? Can link to one credible article with research or proof to back these claims up?
The evidence was in her emails. She had her house maid print off classified information about foreign affairs. And her aides all admitted the Clinton Foundation was involved in pay to play schemes. They predicted it would be a problem. And finally, all of her criminal activities were committed while she worked for us in her role as a public servant. I agree Trump should be investigated for any alleged fraudulent activity, but those occurred as a private citizen…not while taxpayers were paying his salary.
Well, Nicole, I distinctly recall 4 dead Americans in Benghazi…. Or maybe that was all my imagination? Or maybe I imagined the part where the FBI director said pretty much everything she told congress regarding the emails was a lie? What did I say that was false? The government has put people in PRISON for far less significant security breaches. She BROKE THE LAW REPEATEDLY WHILE IN OFFICE.
I literally cannot make it clearer.
Incredibly uninformed.
Can you explain how she is uninformed?
I encourage you to read Guilty As Sin by Edward Klein this will answer many of your questions.
I have heard so many times that the Clintons are criminals, but not a real answer for exactly what crimes they have committed. If it is not e-mails or Benghazi, then what is it? I am genuinely trying to understand, because on the other side of the coin I see Trump being charged with child rape, many cases related to his businesses, ties to Russia, etc, and it is hard for me to imagine what the Clintons could have done that would be worse.
If you’re under 50 you may not remember any of this. This is what was happening in the 90’s. If it had been one or two things and none of the current controversies,pay to play, emails, Benghazi etc then that would be one thing. But put it all together and no I could not vote for her. So my vote for trump was a vote against Hillary. When Bill Clinton was president, he allowed Hillary to assume authority over a health care reform. Even after threats and intimidation, she couldn’t even get a vote in a democratic controlled congress. This fiasco cost the American taxpayers about $13 million in cost for studies, promotion, and other efforts. Then President Clinton gave Hillary authority over selecting a female attorney general. Her first two selections were Zoe Baird and Kimba Wood – both were forced to withdraw their names from consideration. Next she chose Janet Reno – husband Bill described her selection as “my worst mistake.” Some may not remember that Reno made the decision to gas David Koresh and the Branch Davidian religious sect in Waco, Texas resulting in dozens of deaths of women and children. Husband Bill allowed Hillary to make… Read more »
I remember many of those instances and I’m 37. I also grew up in Memphis in the 90’s when several local attorneys were part of the ongoing investigations into the Clinton business dealings. One of those attorneys mysteriously died while in D.C. to present to Congress 300+ pages of evidence into their criminal wrongdoings. There are more than 30 “mysterious” deaths of professionals associated with the Clintons. That’s not a conspiracy theory. It’s fact.
The Clintons are in their 70s. They have been in public life for nearly 50 years. They probably have 1000s upon 1000s of professionals “associated” with them in some way, many of whom are also older. Is 30 people dying (out of 1000s over 50 years) statistically significant? No one, because even defining “associated” is impossible. Everyone is pretty much “associated” with everybody else if you trace relationships to a certain degree.
This kind of argument is why those who don’t hate the Clintons think the Trumpist conspiracy theorists aren’t the country’s best minds.
Don’t see the reply button on Dark’s post below, so will respond here.
The timing of the deaths in context are significant, as are how the people were associated with them.
Interesting. thanks for taking the time to write it down. Many of those do seem insignificant, but all together (if its true) it is compelling. I think I will grab those books that people are suggesting.
Emily – before you pick up any/all of the Clinton related books some commenters have mentioned, please read this review of a handful of them: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/book-party/wp/2016/10/07/these-books-will-help-you-hate-hillary-clinton-but-only-if-you-already-do/
I think it’s important to recognize that these authors aim to: a) sell books, b) drive traffic for websites that quote or discuss them, and c) discredit Clinton. Also, I know some people think that the Washington Post is just part of the liberal media and will dismiss the criticisms in these books, but we need to think critically of information we consume from either side of the political spectrum.
I voted for Hillary- I don’t know who my parents ultimately voted for, but I know that neither of them would EVER vote for her.
Both of my parents are retired from the federal government and worked in National Security.
For them, her actions regarding the emails are criminal. They believe that if either of them did what she did, they would be in jail, no questions asked. Maybe they are right, I certainly don’t know.
I have a lot of other family members who also worked in national security and feel the same way.
I agree that she grossly mishandled the situation. But in the end, we all need to vote according to the issues that matter most to us. To me, Trumps treatment of women is unforgivable, to my parents (and others), Hillary’s treatment of national secrets is.
Will Trump pose a larger threat to women now that he is president than as a private citizen?
Will Clinton pose less of a threat to national security as a private citizen?
When good character or a clean criminal record are not in our options, we can vote based on risk and scope of risk.
Gee, thats strange about treatment of women, since Kelly Anne Conway was the first woman to run a successful campaign for president. And the rape charges were dropped because the woman admitted she made it up, probably paid by Hillary like some of his other accusers were. I also voted for Trump because of her comments about the irredeemable deplorables. She is so elitist.
Thank you Emily. It is so much better to move forward and try to be a bigger person. Resentment won’t get us anywhere. I didn’t vote for Trump but I know people that did. Apparently I know more people that voted for Trump than I realized. I think Stacy nailed it with her explanation of the various reasons.
I came to the blog this morning because I too am super super depressed and anxious about this election result, and I wanted to escape into some juicy decorating and lifestyle blogginess. I was initially disappointed, but then realized it made me feel a tiny bit better knowing that you, Emily, seem to feel exactly the way I do. I too am frightened for the future of our climate, our freedoms, and our democracy, but am trying to follow Hilary’s admonishment in her consetion speech to have an open mind and allow Mr Trump to govern. I agree that he will have zero excuse when he fails for four years. But in the end it is only four years….
Man I can’t spell concession….
I stood at the voting booth still unsure of what to do. I begrudgingly voted Trump because although I don’t support HIM so much, I do support the policies he is behind and the people he has surrounded himself with. I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and being a middle class American with a health insurance payment that’s more than my mortgage I couldn’t support Hillary in continued efforts to socialize medicine. Also her stance on abortions was pretty important to me.
Thanks for being open to learn why some people think differently than you. I like surrounding myself with non-like-minded people to learn from as well.
I too think of myself as socially liberal and fiscally conservative, and am really trying here to understand, how can you be pro-life and socially liberal?
“. . . how can you be pro-life and socially liberal?”
Check out the New Pro-Life movement. There are plenty of people who find the pro-birth agenda hypocritical in the face of no support for healthcare, parental leave, social safety net, etc. Being pro-life doesn’t mean ONLY preventing abortion, or at least it shouldn’t.
Pro-life means that you care for all life – the unborn, the immigrant, the urban poor, etc.
And does your version of pro-life mean you are anti-death penalty?
Hi, Susan and Karin.
Just want to say that, for me, the answer to your question is YES!!! I’m anti-death-of-others: old people, criminals, babies, everybody. I do not believe we have the right to end someone else’s time on this planet, period.
I will admit, however that abortion will be the form of elected death that I will be most impassioned about until two things happen. One, I can not stand that people are making millions off women’s fear and vulnerability. I don’t think people should be able to make money off abortion. Two, they need to start (some places do) giving the fetuses anesthesia. JUST IN CASE. Yes, there is scientific disagreement about when a fetus begins to feel pain, but how can we as people with formed consciences take such a wild chance? The fact that there are human beings who are developed enough to have parts to “harvest” without at least relieving their possible pain is something I can not believe happens in a developed country.
EDIT: Last sentence intended to read “being terminated without at least relieving their possible pain.” That was probably clear, but JIC.
BTW- also would like to add that my comments are in no way intended to shame people who have had abortions. The system is rigged against women in crisis pregnancies, and you deserve compassion, not condemnation.
I tried to post an edit a moment ago, but it didn’t take.
Anyway, wanted to say my last sentence was intended to read that I can’t believe it’s happening. That was probably clear, but just in case.
Also, I want to say that my comments are in NO WAY intended to shame people who have had abortions. The system is rigged against women in crisis pregnancies, and you have my compassion. Condemnation doesn’t help anyone.
So if you are PRO-choice, then you get to choose which lives you think matter?
That’s exactly as it seems. I am Pro-Life and while I may not like certain people, agree with their viewpoints, think they are smart, etc, I still believe that ALL life is sacred and it is not up to me to determine who matters. We are all imperfect, so why would I think I have a better understanding of who gets to live?
I am pro-choice in the sense that I get to decide which “lives” get to use my body. I would not deign to make that choice for you.
abortion isn’t the only social issue
I also consider myself socially liberal but fiscally conservative. I am also pro-life (pro ALL life) but I would like to single out abortion because I don’t believe that women’s rights are at odds with the rights of babies. We should never take away the rights of one people group to ensure the rights of another. It would never be acceptable to allow an entire demographic to be killed because they are making it difficult for a different demographic to achieve their dreams. And yet somehow we champion behind abortion because of women’s rights? I never want my rights as a women to triumph because someone else’s were eliminated – which is what abortion does. Just a differing feminist perspective to throw out there…
Oh man. I think I love you. I am moderate as well-fiscally conservative/socially liberal minus the abortion issue and you have perfectly described how I feel about this. So thank you! I voted for Johnson so I didn’t really have a dog in this fight (poor choice of words or perfect metaphor?). Most of my family/friends are republicans. And voted for Trump. The reasons are: the Clintons are not trusted by them, a new conservative Supreme court justice (abortion issue above) as promised by Trump, and the economy. My husband is an oral surgeon and so most of our friends are dentists or specialists. But they mostly own their practices as well. And it is hard for small businesses right now. And I know people on the left hate trickle down economics but that has absolutely been our experience in growing our practice. My husband doesn’t feel like he can afford the risk of hiring more people/creating more jobs with an unstable economy. He def feels a huge responsibililty for the people that work for him. If he gets in over his head than it’s not just our family that suffers. I can see how some might think we are… Read more »
A bunch of people in this thread have defined themselves as “fiscally conservative/socially liberal, minus abortion,” and I’m curious where you all fall on other “socially liberal” issues like gay marriage, drug policy, capital punishment and sentencing, voting rights, affirmative action and other anti-discrimination measures, public education, funding for public works, the social safety net, etc. Really just curious where people break down on those issues who define themselves in those terms.
Secondly, in an otherwise even match up, how do you weigh socially liberal versus fiscally conservative candidates when voting?
Lastly, there don’t seem to be many public figures who (by my understanding of the terms) are both socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Are there politicians you support who fit that bill who you’d like to see become more prominent?
Except that fetuses are not a demographic. That is the beauty of choice, you do not have to choose an abortion. But you also do not have the right to decide for someone else. This is not a different feminist perspective, it is scientifically wrong. And forcing someone to continue a pregnancy is not feminist.
So well put Kelly. Thank you, from all the Pro-Life feminist.
“People he surrounds himself with”. Please not that at least 2 of the jurors of the Bridgegate trial publicly stated that they believe Chris Christie should have been charged. Two of his underlings are facing prison time. In addition, Christie’s governing of my home state of NJ has been a complete failure ( I could state several reasons, but shan’t…) He is reviled in New Jersey. Everyone wants him to just leave. And guess what…Donald Trump is probably going to make him Attorney General.
So Trump was right…the system IS rigged.
Hi Emily, thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Having worked in healthcare reform and in the insurance industry for years, I understand your frustration with the Affordable Care Act. Healthcare is still not affordable. However, the prices were projected to climb ever more and ever aggressively even in the absence of any intervention. Inside the insurance industry we sought to find every avenue to cut benefits yet charge more. We sought to keep every sick person out of our book of business, or kick them out as soon as the law allowed. That can’t happen anymore. I can almost guarantee that you will not see a better situation when the ACA is repealed. I have priced insurance for years, in multiple policy scenarios, and it’s not going to be more affordable in a free-market, unregulated environment.
Addressing your stance on abortion, many insurance companies internally support abortion because it saves money. Births are expensive, especially the complicated type that often results from unwanted pregnancies. But because the majority of hospitals in this country are controlled by churches or religious organizations, the insurance industry won’t touch abortion. That’s where the ACA and its ties to the insurance industry work in favor of the pro-life movement.
Not to mention the long term affect abortion has on crime rates, and how that translates over to law enforcement spending.
what da fuq?!?!
huh??
Thank you for posting this information! So informative!!!
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I work for the largest insurance industry so I’m playing devils advocate here – of course its best for my job security not to have the healthcare act but I support health for all. Is the Affordable Care Act perfect? Far from it in its current state. However, it opened doors for people with previous conditions and so many other things that previously had been overlooked. Does the cost and pricing need to be addressed? Absolutely – but we’ve laid the foundation and now we need to work on the frame. it’s going to take work and cutting it completely will not temper the long term problem of insurance and medical costs.
Interesting perspective from within the insurance industry. Thank you for sharing.
WOW. That was enlightening (and depressing) thank you very much for sharing.
Very good information!!! Thank you for sharing.
I couldn’t have said this any better myself. These were my exact struggles and reasons….
I ask this in all sincerity – what policies is Trump behind? I’ve never heard him explain anything policy related in any detail.
Have a read. http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/whyi-am-voting-for-trump?module=ConversationPieces®ion=Body&action=click&pgtype=article
AMEN. He has not said anything of substance, ever. I’ve read countless articles, watched countless videos, all of the debates … He says NOTHING and you eat it up. He has no policies, no plans, nothing on record for any of his “big changes, great things” he’s ‘promised.’ Those of you who voted for Trump are either delusional or did not vote for Trump himself at all – you voting for ‘not her’ or ‘the system needs to change.’ I get it, I really do. Neither candidate was ideal or an angel. But now rather than having a supremely experienced person in charge, we have a giant toddler who is riddled with all sorts of personality issues … racism, sexism, failed marriages, countless business failures, no political, diplomatic, foreign policy experience to speak of. He’s very clearly a textbook narcissist. Narcissism + leadership = horrible things. History 101 tells us this very clearly. And he is now in charge of our country. Even the tiniest of things are massive red flags: His twitter account access was revoked this week because he could not be trusted with it. That ALONE is reason to not have this man in charge. Alas, it… Read more »
And Hillary did say substantive things?
We each have to be honest and see past our biases.
Hillary is a massive policy wonk. She outlined hundreds of policies in her speeches and websites, etc. I found this in a 2 second google – may not be a particularly great article, but the point is it didn’t take much looking to find them listed out.
https://www.politiplatform.com/clinton
Have you tried looking on donaldjtrump.com. It’s all there.
What about his 100 day plan? And his “contract” with America? https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract/O-TRU-102316-Contractv02.pdf Good things Donald Trump has done: -In 1986, Trump along with Rosa Parks and Muhammad Ali, were the recipients of the “Ellis Island Award.” He has NEVER been labeled a racist until now, and it is completely false. -fought racism/anti-semitism in Florida when the county of the country club he bought wouldn’t allow blacks or Jews. ….in the 90’s. -In 1980, he put the first female ever to supervise the construction of a sky scraper. -When Jennifer Hudson’s mother, brother, and nephew were murdered, Trump put her and her family up at the Trump International Hotel & Tower free of charge -Trump stepped in to keep the “Harlem Hoops” club open when the man who directed it died in the 911 attacks. -He helped facilitate Detroit artists to appear at Carnegie Hall -Trump finished the ice skating rink in Central Park that the city had been working on but could not complete. And he did it for free in 2 months. – He donates his plane to fly sick people across the country for medical treatments In my opinion, he absolutely does not deserve the negativity that he… Read more »
“When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”
He called my family rapists. He said I was not the best. He said I was not like you. He said I have a lot of problems. These are his own words. This is called racism, and it cut me to core when I heard these words last summer. I love this country, and I work hard every day to be a productive, contributing member of society. Yet, yesterday, more than half of the country voted for Trump in spite of his beliefs.
This is the question I would like the Trump supporters to answer. I want to know how you can be supportive of a leader that would say this about me and my family. How could you be tolerant of bigotry?
You’re talking in memes. The things you are saying are easily debunked, and whatever you’re implying about the Clinton Foundation is more likely to be true of the Trump Foundation.
Facebook isn’t a legitimate source. You have to vet the “research” with non-partisan sourcing.
He and his father violated fair housing laws by refusing to rent to black tenants. He STILL insists the central park 5 are guilty even after they were exonerated by DNA evidence.
Dave, his website clearly states all of his policies and plans in plain English (I know b/c I scoured them when in the process of determining whom to vote for) and he did talk about those points in many of his speeches. But it’s frustrating that the campaign process doesn’t do more to allow the candidates that opportunity. I had a hard time deciphering what either of them would do if president (i.e., specific policies). I finally gave up and went to the websites. That was much more informative, and while I didn’t vote for Trump, his was (in my opinion) more clear and informative than Hillary’s.
If you read his positions, it’s pretty informative. I recommend it if you want to engage in informed conversation.
Amy, you’re right. It is all there. My point was that he has not ever said any of it himself and cannot articulate any of it. I disagree that he talked about them in many of his speeches. He spoke at many of his speeches, but said nothing. Word salad. Cannot answer a repeated direct question. This is a man who will be engaging in global dialogues around foreign policy and he can’t be bothered to read the plans his people crafted for him, commit them to memory, and speak intelligently about them.
Im not a trump supporter but to be fair have you gone on donaljtrump.com? All of his plans and policies are there.
Yes, see my reply just above to Amy. I see them. There’s some good stuff there. His people wrote it, yet he himself clearly knows nothing of it. You want a guy who doesn’t even know his own plans and cannot speak to any of it?
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/healthcare-reform
You are not as socially liberal as you think you are. With help from his trusted advisors, Trump plans to try and overturn Roe v Wade, cut Obamacare and deport countless immigrants. All of which are social issues that should have been important to someone who cares about social issues.
Illegal immigrants will be deported.. Not immigrants. Key word which is self explanatory is “Illegal”.
Chrystie – I’d like to stop you right there at “illegal immigrants.” “When one refers to an immigrant as an “illegal alien,” they are using the term as a noun. They are effectively saying that the individual, as opposed to any actions that the individual has taken, is illegal. The term “illegal alien” implies that a person’s existence is criminal. I’m not aware of any other circumstance in our common vernacular where a crime is considered to render the individual – as opposed to the individual’s actions – as being illegal. We don’t even refer to our most dangerous and vile criminals as being “illegal.”
While I have found this election cycle to be deeply unsettling, I have been making an effort to focus on those we’ve “left behind” those currently living in fear: a fear of homosexuality, faithlessness, immigration and change. I don’t agree with them, but I do recognize that their voices have been lost and we all bear some level of responsibility. That includes talking about topics with informed opinions.
Thank you, Emily, for bridging the divide.
That is an interesting idea about the illegal label. Maybe we could come up with a better term.
Isn’t “criminal” as a noun, the same as illegal? Someone who has robbed is a robber, murdered is a murderer…even if they aren’t at this moment in the act. A criminal committed a crime.
Someone who is in the country illegally is committing an ongoing crime. Crossing the border and staying is not the same as trespassing and then leaving.
It’s not a person’s existence that is against the law. They aren’t illegally alive. They are illegally occupying a location.
That said, I feel like they are refugees. Our laws don’t accommodate for the situation, which is complex and sad.
I’m don’t claim to be the most socially liberal person. I am 100% pro-choice because I see it as murder (no
Need to debate this here), but I’m liberal, or fall outside of what most republicans vote, for LGBTQ issues and immigration reformation. I see Obamacare under my fiscally conservative viewpoints. I’m all about helping others, but I don’t think we should be forced to do so. And before I get attacked by that I can ensure you my family gives more to others financially, as a % of income, than most or all on this page. That’s not a boast, it’s just a fact. I’d love to have more of my money to give
to others that align with my values. I’d rather give my money to those adopting than to pay for the abortion.
Anyways, all that to say that I can care about which ever social issues I choose to care about….not everything is a one-size fits all scenario.
I don’t believe that my tax money should only go to support people whose values I share. A person in need is a person in need. That’s why I believe (for example) that government-funded healthcare and welfare is a good thing, because the government should be so much better at holding out an impartial and fair helping hand. As individuals, sometimes we have a hard time being the good Samaritan.
I didn’t vote for Trump but many of my family members did. Most of them told me one of the main reasons was because the Affordable Care Act left them in a gap where their insurance plans were between 25 and 40% of their net incomes.
I can empathize with you on the costs of healthcare and the ACA was a poorly fitting bandage on an already hemorrhaging system. I wholeheartedly disagree with your decision to support him but I respect your position and reasons, and I genuinely hope that the changes you were hoping for will come about without the further marginalization and oppression of others.
Peace and love.
I don’t understand this as an ACA issue. That was a law championed by Obama, but it was passed by a bipartisan Congress. Congress makes laws and funds them, and can overturn their own laws. A president cannot overturn such a law. That’s basic Constitutional law taught in high school, not my opinion.
Just as a point of clarification, the ACA was not bipartisan at all — in fact, not a single Republican voted for it in either the House or the Senate. Obviously Congress at the time was “bipartisan,” but the legislation most definitely was not. Also, to your point on how legislation must be funded by Congress under the Constitution, a federal judge recently ruled that the administration unconstitutionally funded part of the ACA on its own, in the absence of an appropriation from Congress.
The ACA was based on a Heritage Foundation (conservative think tank) plan that was originally implemented by Mitt Romney when he was governor of Massachusetts….
I’m pretty sure that the ACA was not bipartisan. Well, maybe one Republican voted for it.
I didn’t not vote for Trump, I voted for Johnson, however what you have said is factually inaccurate. First, the ACA was passed by not one single Republican, zero. Second, congress writes and passes the laws but then the president has to sign or veto. Republicans have sent changes to the ACA to Obama and he has vetoed them. I would also add that if the Democrats were truly interested in provided more affordable healthcare to everyone they would have dropped state borders, put a cap on annual increases in costs, and opened up Medicare/Medicaid to cover those receiving subsidies for coverage. I do agree with their removing pre-existing conditions and being dropped for illness but otherwise the Democrats, and the Democrats alone, dropped the ball on this one. To answer Emily’s question as a neither of them voter I will quote Frank Burris from the NYT; “When people are silenced, when just saying that you disagree with Obamacare or trans-gender bathrooms gets you labeled a bigot, a deplorable, people seethe, and their release was Donald Trump.”
No, the ACA was not passed on a bipartisan basis – no republican voted for it, And it was passed on Christmas Eve – middle of the night – with just enough votes to pass it. The Obama administration also didn’t tell the truth to the people about the cost, and about whether people would be allowed to keep their current plan.
The republican led congress says they haven’t yet been able to repeal it is that Obama would have vetoed their legislation. Clinton would have vetoed it as well. A Republican president will likely work with the congress on this problem, more than a Democrat President.
I doubt they’ll repeal it outright. I think the new congress will try to fix it with more market based solutions. It needs a big fix.
I really hope so too!! But the good news is that no matter his actions, I can still love my neighbor and help them with my own two hands.
I am coming from the other side as a doctor/surgeon. A big reason for the increase in costs is the cost of administration. It takes at least three people to manage my insurance and business side of my practice. A single payer system (while making my income come down) is the only way to decrease healthcare.
If the fact that people are in the “gap” of making too much but still very little is making them vote for Trump then frankly they should examine the facts. The Republican Congress repealed this part of the law.
And on a personal note, I went into medicine because I love that I help people. I dont love that a big portion of my job is telling people that they can’t get surgeries because of government policies.
An honest question – you mentioned you were socially liberal. All of Trumps policies about social issues have promoted hate and exclusion. Racism. Nationalism. Bigotry. Sexism. The list goes on and on. For many, those were priorities in NOT voting Trump. How do you decide that fiscal issues become more important than social when choosing a candidate?
Unfortunately social change requires money. There are committees, organizations, charities, movements, etc that all needed to be funded and you can’t fund those things when you are in an excruciating amount of debt. This is the reason fiscal issues sometimes have to rise above social issues for a time being. Once our country is in a better economic standing there will be some stability in people’s lives and when there is stability there is room to change and improve things. Also, one of the biggest reasons Trump won last night was because lower class workers, and rural communities came out to the polls in unprecedented numbers. These people have been fighting for a voice that has been so overlooked under the Obama administration. I am in no way saying minorities should be overlooked (and please don’t twist my words to mean that) but they have been focused on so much by the left that they forgot that lower class white men and women have incredible struggles too. This is why is doesn’t matter what color your skin is or what your stance is on various social situations are, because at the end of the day 70% of America is making… Read more »
Thank you, Logan. I would like to know how they were overlooked. Is it becuase manufacturing left? If they had a voice what would they say? Please more and better jobs? Living in LA the economy here is good, and the overall economy of the country is good, so Is it that there aren’t enough quality jobs in the rust belt?
The economy in the rest of the country is struggling. I didn’t realize people weren’t aware of that.
I think this is an excellent question Emily. The manufacturing jobs have been leaving this country long before Obama. This is technology driven, not policy driven. I have yet to hear a realistic plan by Trump to get those jobs back. Its crazy just by saying our jobs are leaving and not putting into place a plan that he won votes on this.
Our economy in Dallas is great as well and there are no shortage of jobs, only a shortage of employees so I have little personal experience with this issue so I am genuinely curious.
I’m a reader in Oklahoma (I’m crushed, too. I have huge respect for HRC, and had such hope). I work in economic development, so thought I would jump in. The easiest way to explain Logan’s point about rural communities is by the types of jobs we work today. Almost everyone has a job based on services: design, finance, sales, nonprofit, etc. Most jobs are transactional, rather than productive, in the sense that what it used to take 15 people to do or create, can be done more efficiently via technology. Rural communities have largely been centered around a single industry (in the rural Oklahoma town I grew up in, it was healthcare; in another, a regional university; in another, oil pipelines). Most people will work or be related to people who work in that dominant industry, and there will be some service-based jobs around it. Over the last century, the industries that propped up small towns went away, for many reasons. When that single industry goes, there is a ripple effect throughout the town: the people who worked in industry lose their jobs, then people in services that worked with the industries or depended on people with incomes from that… Read more »
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/
In reply to Emily’s question to Logan: people who have lost their jobs to overseas companies is just one spectrum of overlooked folks. If you can call them that. Maybe disregarded would be a better term. The classic working class jobs have been given to immigrants (some legal, some not) who are willing to take very low pay. This drives down the pay of all those jobs. Go to rural small town America and you will find them full of families who struggling to make 30k a year. Yep, the cost of one LA bathroom remodel. These are the people who used to work those classic labor jobs and could get by modestly in most cases. So first, you have numerous blue collar jobs sent overseas, then you have working class jobs filled by immigrants, driving wages down. What are these people supposed to do? LA and other big cities are {seemingly} filled with successful career professionals making and spending lots of money. They have a lot of influence and are catered to on account of their money. And therefore the little man feels ignored, disregarded, and under represented. I understand this, coming from and living in small town America.… Read more »
Emily, it’s just the bigger cities that have tech jobs that are doing well. The smaller towns or rural areas are struggling. SNAP…i.e…..food stamps…are up 20% under Obama. Fifty three million people get food stamps. If you don’t have employer paid insurance or qualify for assistance under the Affordable Care Act, it’s expensive! I qualify for a subsidy, but, my policy has gone from $487 a month to $652. If I made 10k more per year I would be paying the full amount.
“Logan, a college educated, white millennial”
and male, lucky you.
Actually I am a female 🙂
Logan, thank you so much! One of the main reasons I didn’t vote for Trump was because of the social issues I am more liberal on. But your explanation is so true and makes so much sense. It actually makes me feel a little better, since I can really see it from that point of view now. And you said it in such a way that wasn’t offensive, which takes some talent! I’m still concerned about the issues I hold dear, but maybe I can have hope that this will end up for the best. Thank you!
Unfortunately social change requires money. There are committees, organizations, charities, movements, etc that all needed to be funded and you can’t fund those things when you are in an excruciating amount of debt. This is the reason fiscal issues sometimes have to rise above social issues for a time being. Once our country is in a better economic standing there will be some stability in people’s lives and when there is stability there is room to change and improve things. Also, one of the biggest reasons Trump won last night was because lower class workers, and rural communities came out to the polls in unprecedented numbers. These people have been fighting for a voice that has been so overlooked under the Obama administration. I am in no way saying minorities should be overlooked (and please don’t twist my words to mean that) but they have been focused on so much by the left that they forgot that lower class white men and women have incredible struggles too. This is why is doesn’t matter what color your skin is or what your stance is on various social situations are, because at the end of the day 70% of America is making… Read more »
…because Donald Trump can’t make me be racist, sexist, bigot, or oppressive to the marginalized. Those are my choices in my day to day life. I choose to love others and serve them because they are important, no matter who they are. I live in Georgia. There are more illegals in my county than citizens it seems. They are my friends & co-workers, however I still believe a country has laws for a reason and to become a citizen you should do so the legal way. I’m not in the send them all back vote–I will be shocked if that happens.
What I need from my president is to make us fiscally strong so we can thrive, THEN we’all have the excess we need to care for others (internationally) without carrying this sickening national debt.
I like that last sentence and it makes a lot of sense to me. I have another question. Jolene and Claire – what you wrote makes so much sense (I read HillBilly Elegy before the election and it helped a lot). But my question is if technology is reducing these jobs, and we can’t pull these companies back from being manufactured in another country then what is the option? Sure, reduce the amount of illegal labor that costs less, but what plan has Trump promised that made people feel that new jobs would be created?
I thought I read today (I researched since he’s the new president) that he would put tarriffs on the companies that went overseas to manufacture. So they would be more likely to move back since it would cost less/or the same to manufacture here. That combined with the illegal immigration influx better paying jobs would be more secure here.
In the spirit of Emily’s post, I am trying to construct this question as respectfully as possible. I’m wondering how socializing medicine would increase your health insurance payment? And other than healthcare policies, can you elaborate on the other policies you support that he is behind?
Thank you for sharing, Emily. This makes sense to me. You and I probably don’t agree on many issues, but the one that we (probably) agree on is that government as we know it hasn’t worked for everyone in a long time. I’m on the left coast in an affluent area. I don’t have to be concerned about safety of my kids. Or healthcare. But seeing our country look like blue parentheses on the electoral college map made me feel like I have no connection to what someone 1000 miles from me is going through. Do they deal with a long commute like I do? Worry that they will only get 6 weeks of maternity leave?
With love from the west coast, thank you for sharing!
Can I ask you something, respectfully? I am liberal and believe in women’s rights even though personally I think abortion is really really sad. Do you feel like you are looking at abortion in a vacuum? Do you see a contradiction in the way pro-life supporters tend not to support quality of life legislation for those outside the womb?
Thank you for saying that Liz. That’s one of the most frustrating parts of the Pro Life stance.
And I will say, the decision to abort must be gut-wrenching. When I recently had “a scare” (which was probably silly as it was my age at the end of my child-bearing years that created the missed period), the idea that at politicians (mostly white men) desire to take that gut-wrenching decision away from me…..truly frightening. And now they actually….can.
Thanks Liz. That is my stance as well and I like to say, just because someone is pro-choice doesn’t mean they are pro-death. I truly don’t think anyone wants to get an abortion or even be in a situation where they have to consider it but personally, I think they should be allowed that consideration (especially in cases of rape, incest, and the health of mother/baby). I think the appropriate names are pro-choice and anti-choice.
I saw this political commentary before and feel like it illustrates the question Liz posed in a (hopefully) clear and respectful way. http://i.imgur.com/X4HZiYp.jpg
Pro choice doesn’t mean pro death, just like pro Trump doesn’t mean pro hate.
I realize you, Mandy, didn’t say or insinuate that, but it seems to be the assumption across the board. Just throwing it out there for those scrolling through comments.
You also accidentally made a great point. This entire election has been anti-choice in my opinion. Bad Choice vs. Bad Choice!
It’s interesting you talk about health insurance payments bigger than your mortgage, and couldn’t support Hillary in what you say are continued efforts to socialize medicine. Perhaps you don’t understand that if medicine were truly socialized, health insurance prices would cease to be bigger than your mortgage.
Thank you, Sari. That is also my understanding of socialized medicine.
As someone who grew up with socialized medicine, I have to say it’s not that simple: healthcare is NOT automatically cheaper there. The costs are hidden. No one knows how much anything costs, a doctor’s visit, a procedure. Costs there have risen, as they have everywhere. People with long term illnesses are going broke there too.
My health insurance here in the US has gotten much much worse in the past few years. It means I have to try to make informed decisions on my healthcare consumption. But that’s almost impossible. Have you ever tried to find out how much a doctor’s visit or a procedure costs, calling offices and hospitals? Guess what, no one really knows, they send you on a wild goose chase, call this one, try that one.
Both systems are broken; you cannot lower costs when you done know the costs. Socialized medicine isn’t quite the shiny nickel we’d like to believe.
Am a socially liberal with fiscal conservative leanings and a post grad education in policy, living deep inside a liberal bubble. I’m disturbed/ this election.
Again I was researching today what Trump wants to do (as he is our new president and I figured I better learn) about healthcare: on his website he said he wants to drop all borders so insurance companies have to compete for you to make costs go down. A part of that would be to have dr’s provide costs for procedures so you can shop different dr’s like you would a car or computer.
Every time I take my kids to the doctors, it cost me $135. My son had warts on his hand, it cost over $200 once a month for six months. I make my Dr. appointments at the end of the year, when we are finally getting close to our $5,000 deductible. I used to complain about a $20
co-pay. I miss those days. This is on top of paying a good chunk of money in health insurance. If it gets any worse, I don’t know how families will be able to afford it. On the other side, my mother receives Obamacare, and almost anything she needs is paid for. The system is broken.
Jack…try apple cider vinegar on a cotton ball, on the wart, wrapped in duct tape. Leave it on overnight and the repeat. It really works and it’s free!
Yes! ACV works so well! I’ve used it for five times on my child with success 🙂
Hello, I’m a Canadian who is relatively interested in the politics of my neighbours. I can assure all of a few things. First off, socialism is not a bad thing. There are plenty of digustingly wealthy Canadians despite our socialist tendencies. Secondly, we have universal health care and as middle income earner I was able to receive treatment for my recent cancer diagnosis without having to stress about insurance coverage or medical expenses. It is a well known fact that the US pays higher per capita on Medicare. Higher than Canada. Our system is not perfect and we have to continue to fight to make it better. But still it is more cost effective and inclusive than in the US. Lastly, we have legal abortion and gay marriage and our country has not collapsed from lack of morals. I can assure you we are generally nice people. In addition, we have lower crime rates and raise many funny people 🙂 I like this conversation because it’s important to know how our nieghbours feel. I worry for the US and for the rest of the world as some of the things that Trump says/does could provoke civil and international war. Civil… Read more »
I meant your not you’re 😉
Thank you, AM.
Am! Loved this. I am from the UK (universal healthcare) now living in the Netherlands (for the first time dabbling in the world of Health Insurance). Yes the NHS in the UK has it’s issues, but I can agree with you that universal healthcare is not a bad thing! By contrast now in the Netherlands, health insurance is obligatory but structured so you would never be expected to pay out large sums for extensive treatment. For minor care, you pay up to like €300 for the whole year regardless of how many visits you make. Those seeking asylum get free healthcare, and those unemployed are helped by the state as well. These things can, and do, work! We (the Netherlands) were the first country to legalise gay marriage in 2001, we have legalised prostitution and cannabis and we too are still standing! The control of immigration is (of course) a concern in Europe right now, but the way in which people who reasonably cannot live in their country of origin are referred to as ‘illegals’, truly does not reflect their struggle. You’re right Am, that the rest of the world might get caught in the crossfire, and I too hope… Read more »
As someone who was raised Catholic, I understand those who are Pro-Life, but it seems that so many look at it in such black and white terms. Trump has said that he wants to defund Planned Parenthood, which tends to be a pretty big selling point to Pro-Lifers. But, I’m curious, if you consider yourself a socially liberal person, but also Pro-Life, how do you reconcile this? There is a lot of mis-information that circulates about federal funding of PP and whether they use it to provide abortions. But all of that aside, research has shown that abortions are reduced not by restricting access to abortions, but by preventing unwanted pregnancies to begin with. Getting rid of PP would seriously restrict affordable healthcare and access to contraceptives to women most susceptible to seeking to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. To me, that seems to be working against the Pro-life movement more than it’s helping. Thoughts?
This post resonated with me in a big way. I also feel uncertainty, and sadness that we all seem to be so divided, but I also have hope that things will get better. I hope this helps:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/opinion/election-night-2016/whyi-am-voting-for-trump
I voted Trump. The NYT article GG linked above perfectly sums up why. Thanks for posting that, GG.
I see, so you overlook the bad in one but not the other. I get it. Some things resonate more with you vs me and him vs her. But the one you chose has zero experience in anything related to being in charge of a country. And has no actual plans to speak of.
For me, it’s simple. I cannot in good conscience vote for a person who is very clearly not a good human. We all have flaws. I swear I must have a million flaws. But at heart, I am a good person. I have seen, read, watched, listened … and have not found one single thing that would allow me to qualify in my mind that Trump is a good human.
Dave, this is my fundamental problem too. Trump has no moral core. He is not a good person. He doesn’t fundamentally believe in anything, except his own benefit and self-promotion at whatever expense and no matter how fundamentally unfair (stiffing workers to pad his own bottom line, etc.). How can anyone trust that?
Erica and Dave, this is exactly how I see Hillary. I restrained myself from saying she’s pure evil earlier, but that’s how I feel.
Not really, Dave. I know there are a lot of deplorable things about Donald Trump; I’m not overlooking that. But I chose instead to look at the good he could potentially do for the country. I couldn’t find that in the Hillary campaign.
Totally agree Dave. That, and only that should be the reason not to vote for him.
I agree. As someone who lives in an area with 8-9 % unemployment and a median income of 38k, most of the liberals I know are out of touch with the reality of the rest of the country. I’m in Fresno, Ca…where we have 10% of the nations population and 33% of the welfare case load. People’s can’t even begin to get off welfare because there are any jobs! Liberals are more worried about Global warming than people. Trump has run a company and has written paychecks. He knows how to get things done. Hillary has been a career politician. Her Clinton Foundation is corrupt. What did they do with all that money from Haiti? People are still homeless or living in tents. She owes favors to every country all over the world for their donations. She’s pro Big Pharma and for mandatory vaccinations for everyone, young and old. Check out YouTube vids for Vaxxed the movie. You will see YouTube videos of thousands of stories of vaccine injured children and adults. The Clintons are about as corrupt as can be. It’s not all a right wing conspiracy! Emily, I loved you on Design Star and love your blog, but… Read more »
I was agreeing w the poster before, not the guy who said Trumps a bad person.
Parker, thanks for sharing! I’m realizing now that I’m an out of touch liberal as well, so it’s helpful to understand your perspective. One quick note, is that I care about global warming precisely b/c of the people that it is starting to affect and will affect in the long term. I can see how that might get lost with so many people in the US facing other seemingly more immediate issues.
I respectfully disagree with you about the following Clinton v Trump corruption, but just wanted to chime in and thanks (again) for sharing!
Hey Parker, I don’t think you are wrong about being out of touch (although no, I would never buy an $800 skirt). I think I found out, late last night how out of touch I am. Trying to get back in touch today 😉
Emily I really applaud your grace and desire to understand those who believe differently then you! Your attitude and perspective are not what I’ve experienced in the left/dem community. Thank you for opening up a conversation instead of more mud slinging, I think we’ve all had enough of that!
Emily, I can’t stress how refreshing it is for someone to stop and try to understand. I feel like most people are saying, I don’t get it!!! And then they settle for something like sexism, because their current assessment couldn’t possibly be wrong!! Thereby whittling people’s lives down into a simple catchphrase, meanwhile turning around and calling the other side too stupid to understand the issues. Quite ironic. I don’t really think Trump will turn things around, but neither would Clinton, if it’s true that she would be more of Obama, as Obama liked to point out.
Completely agree with this, thank you for posting!
Some facts:
1. Being concerned about global warming IS being concerned about people. People have already lost their homes to flooding due to climate change. Massive numbers of people around the world are likely to be displaced.
2. Vaccinations save lives.
3. Fresno does not have 10% of the nation’s population.
Except, Parker, there are stories abound about Trump not writing paychecks, not paying for completed and quality work, not upholding his promises, to the detriment of the working and middle class. As someone who is fighting for the middle class, I respectfully ask how do you reconcile that? How does that play into your definition of a good business man?
There are also well documented instances of the Trump Foundation misusing funds – they were actually investigated and fined by the IRS. As someone who runs a non-profit organization, I have a unique understanding a what a very big deal that is, from both an ethical and business standpoint.
I respect everyone’s right to choose, and so appreciate you sharing your perspective, but I just don’t understand this logic.
BTW – I found this article to be helpful in evaluating the effectiveness/corruptness of the Clinton Foundation. http://bit.ly/2eEbVyX – spending 80-90% of funds on charitable programs is incredibly high, even for the best non-profit.
I just read that, Sarah and GG. Thanks for posting it. Its very compelling.
Hi Emily, I’m 30 and live in Los Angeles. We have many things in common from what I’ve gathered by reading your blog for years! I (quietly, so as not to be harassed, bullied, or lose friendships,) stand apart from ALL of my friends in my political viewpoints.
I voted conservatively because it’s where the majority of my beliefs align. In all of these responses, people seem to do the same. We have issues that are the Most important to us, in part because of our current situations, in part because of how we were raised, and in part because of our research and understanding.
For me personally, those issues and alignment with Republican handling of those issues are: 1) immigration reform (of huge importance to me living in LA and working in fundraising at a public school); 2) tax policy; 3) national security; and 4) social programs.
The farther left we go, the more our nation becomes dependent on government control.
Most of all, I believe in the electoral process. Our amazing right to vote and be heard.
What I don’t get is how many men and women vilify her for standing by her marriage despite the affairs. Many a marriage remains intact after an affair for all sorts of reasons, but I would think fighting to maintain the sacred oath they took together should be viewed positively. To blame her for his indiscretions is unfathonable to me. Good on them that they found a way to work through it all.
MMB, because people believe she stood by him so as not to sabotage her own ambitions. On the one hand that feels like she would say anything and do anything to be president– untrustworthy. On the other, can’t blame her; she didn’t cheat, she didn’t rape anyone, so why should she pay the price.
I actually take heart in the fact that Trump is thrice divorced. Maybe we can finally get away from morality politics, and that automatic pandering to the religious right.
Ha. I hadn’t thought of his three divorced in any sort of positive way (EVER) but maybe you are right and we can get away from morality politics.
Thank you! I have a good friend who’s marriage survived infidelity and she says it hurts everytime she hears someone who condemns her for staying. People need to realize a whopping 40 percent of married couples experience infidelity in their lives and it takes a strong person to survive that, and an even stronger couple to.
This is a great idea Emily.
I’m scared. Feeling connected could help.
Although I didn’t vote for president (despite an intense internal debate, I couldn’t make up my mind), my entire family including my husband did and they all voted for Trump for the same reason – he’s ostensibly and hopefully pro-life. They all did so reluctantly and despite disagreeing with almost every statement he’s ever made. Abortion is the key issue that governs all of their (and typically mine) voting and politically behavior. And I’ve seen evidence that Trump’s support was heavily bolstered by Christians voting for moral reasons i.e. life. I think many with different political opinions have forgotten how important this issue is to so many of us.
Why does it concern you so much what another woman does with her body? No one is ‘pro abortion’.
Hey Nini, please be respectful. Abortion is one of the few issues where there isn’t a real gray area. At some point, you have to choose between the potential life and the life of the mother. Anna and I disagree, but we’re all trying to do what’s right.
I am so frustrated to hear the prolife commentary without a similar fight to support those women who would otherwise have abortions after they have the baby? You better have that baby, but no paid maternity leave for you. No reasonably costing childcare. What about healthcare for that baby? You want life but don’t do a thing to protect that life after its birth.
Very good points, MMB.
Not her body, the body of her innocent baby
Some of us don’t care what the woman does with her body, we care what she does with the baby’s body.
Hi Anna, thank you for sharing your perspective. I am personally pro-choice, but I do understand where you and other pro-life voters are coming from on this issue.
As someone who is pro choice, I have an honest question to ask pro life folks (non judgmentallt) that I’ve always struggled with. How do you reconcile the fact that women are choosing abortion and not to carry to term? Do you feel that the 1/3 of women who have had abortions are murderers? I never understood how pro life people reconciled abortion as nurder while also somehow not demonizing the women who chose to have them.
Not my belief system, but those whose beliefs are derived from religion generalize as “hate the sin, not the sinner.” Very similar thought process for non-religious pro-lifers.
Yes! Abortion is murder.
I voted for trump, for a few reasons, the biggest one being the supreme court nominees and that he will hopefully stand by his word to support pro-life (as opposed to Hillary’s view of abortion.) Women who have abortions…they need Jesus, as do we all, They did commit a crime and it’s one, that christians believe they will have to answer for. BUT we all make mistakes and as the Bible says, no sin is worse than another, hating someone is murdering them in your heart, those who break one law break them all. None of us are blameless, all of us need the Lord (Trump definitely included) but my hope is that any pro-life legislature that passes will at least partially stem the horrendous amount of babies killed now. It is a woman’s body…but there are two lives involved (the miracle of birth is NOT convienent). It’s not just about woman, it’s about giving a voice to the unborn. I know that the baby isn’t valued as much as the mom to pro-choice people, but to diminish the fact that it’s a life at all and doesn’t matter…it goes against everything we stand for
I am an atheist, I don’t need the Lord and I resent it that someone else
would assume we all need what’s only good for yourself. I acknowledge
that some people love these imaginary religious beliefs, however, it should
be something very very private and it has absolutely nothing to do with
politics. We’ve fought many many religious wars in Europe, it’s 2016 now
and we can move on…..well, at least some of us!
Betty- Katie was sharing her opinion, as she was asked to do. Try to be respectful of her beliefs. Most Christians I know live their lives by scripture, so yes their religion has everything to do with politics and how they vote. Aren’t you doing exactly what you were offended by? Assuming that we all need what’s only good for you (HRC)? Just a thought
Katie, you say you hope for “pro-life legislature that passes will at least partially stem the horrendous amount of babies killed now,” so I’d really love your take on this (I thought moving) article: http://www.shannondingle.com/blog//im-pro-life-and-im-voting-for-hillary-heres-why
Thank you.
Katie, you said it perfectly! Thank you.
Respectfully, Katie my head is going to explode. The audacity of the anti-choice movement and your comments are mind blowing. I don’t need your “Lord”, and while birth is amazing, wonderful and life altering it’s not a “miracle” it’s science and biology. Your personal, private religious beliefs are yours. The idea that you, or the government have the right to impose those religious beliefs, on anyone, and intrude in personal medical decisions made by private citizens is vile and reprehensible and at the core profoundly Un-American.
Theologically speaking, as a conservative Christian, these women are murderers. So is every person alive, as we are all sinners, and our sin is what murdered Christ – who led a blameless life to eventually be a sacrifice and justification for all our sin.
So, I can’t exactly look at a woman who made that choice and think I’m better or above such action. If that makes any sense. My sin (whatever that may be) contributes just as their sin (taking a life) does.
I hope this was respectful and possibly helpful.
I am not a sinner, I am not a murderer – these are only your beliefs and not the
laws of this country. We don’t mix religion with politics and law making as not
everyone has imaginary friends named Jesus.
I don’t need to live by your standards, and if you’re such a devot Christian how
can you vote for someone who has been a proven liar, cheater, sexual offender,
bigot, and just about everything else that a deeply dishonest and conniving person
would do? Please explain!!!
You asked for people to help you understand. I don’t understand either side. From your extreme sadness you must be very liberal. How can anybody be on either side? I will never understand this. I did not vote, I have always been confused about how anyone can be so one minded? This is very personal and not very popular but at some point the two have to run together. I am a Christian( I’ll give you a second to roll your eyes) I am not hateful, I do not think my sins are any better than anyone else’s sins, but I do still think that we all sin and that just because it makes us happy that doesn’t make it good. I am so thankful that God sent his son to save me because I DEFINETELY need saving. My house has way to much glass to be throwing stones. I have the right to feel that way, just as you have the same. I think most people that believe in God vote Republican because they think that means they are doing their Christian duty. I do not understand that at all. I don’t think that you can pick and choose… Read more »
Thanks for asking, Charity. I consider myself a liberal because I care about all people, equally, and I believe that left to our own devices, we are innately all selfish and will put our needs, our wants, our dollars in front of the greater good. It’s not that I don’t think that conservatives care about people, but like another commenter said liberals value equality over freedom and conservatives value freedom over equality. Both are good, its just a matter of what you want to put in front of the other. I believe that the governments role in society is to help create programs that will let us thrive and progress as individuals and communities – no matter what your racial, socio-economic and geographic status. I believe in public education, public health care, subsidized child care, regulations, taxes, etc. Every time I see a homeless person I see it as a way that we have failed. Sometimes I wonder, in horror, if either of our kids will be in that position but most of the time I know that they won’t because they were raised by me and Brian, and we were given the tools to succeed in life, by good… Read more »
Thank you for your reply, I really appreciate that you at least try to see things from the other side. I am honestly right in the middle, I would have been just as sad if Hillary would have won, I know that its sad but I really believe that their are no answers. I want people to know that just because you believe in God doesn’t mean that you are hateful, I think tolerance is the most important thing in Christianity, but we are human and we live in a fallen world. When feel like I do it is hard to talk to people because I really don’t agree with either side totally, I have major issues with both. As a Christian I believe that we are already equal even though we don’t treat each other that way. If you truly value equality, will you be sending your children to public school? I know that if I was in your position it would be hard for me to. Did you invite the homeless person to supper? Offer him a job? I know I didn’t last time I saw someone living in the street. If you had to pay the person… Read more »
LIsa, I think they are careless people.
Hi Lisa,
This issue is tough and hard to answer. I believe that women should have the right to treat and take care of their bodies however they want. That being said, the act of abortion is taking the rights from another human who is too small and helpless to speak for themselves. I may have a pre-conceived notions about pro-choicers but it seems like PC don’t really believe that fetuses are babies. They aren’t human. They don’t have DNA. Is that true? I feel so many people look blindly or past the scientific evidence because they can only believe that’s a womans right to choose. It’s so political that they won’t think about the actual life that is taken away. As a feminist this is one of the hardest issues to talk about because I believe women are the most amazing creatures on the planet 😉 I don’t know how to reconcile when I gravely disagree with someone but I do know that I have to choose love and trust that Jesus has all these babies lives in his hands.
I truly believe that all the political differences in our country can be boiled down to the tension between the American values of “equality” and “freedom”. You can’t have complete freedom and while preserving equality, and vice versa. Republicans typically promote freedom over equality and Democrats usually promote equality over freedom. One place I really notice the divergence from this trend is with the right to life argument. If a person really believes in freedom over equality it would seem to me that they would respect the freedom of an individual’s reproductive decisions. If your family is voting Republican based solely on this issue maybe you could help me understand what seems so inconsistent from someone on the outside. If the Democrats switched to pro-life would your family likely change their allegiance? No judgement, I have just been thinking about that dualism lately.
I am pro-choice. My husband flies across the state, and sometimes across the country several times a month to provide terminations to women I rural areas. The women come from hundreds of miles around, having scrounged up enough money for gas, an overnight stay (depending on the state laws), and the procedure. They tell my husband about their situation which ranges from not having birth control, to rape, to an abusive spouse who would literally “kill the baby”, to not having any money to feed their kids. They tell him why they are farther along than ideal. Many times its because there were no other clinics they could get to, and that my husband only goes to that clinic once a month. So, for the pro-lifers out there who voted for Trump, I implore you to ask how Trump will help women avoid unwanted pregnancies. How will he reduce rapes? How will he provide birth control and family planning to the most disenfranchised and uneducated? How does he seek to reduce second-trimester abortions in a country where women must cross state lines and endure a waiting period to have a termination? And, if Roe v Wade were repealed, how will… Read more »
Thanks for sharing this, Christine. Your husband and your family are very brave. I agree completely–is our culture “pro birth” or “pro life”? SO many of these policies support a baby being born but leave the mother and family with very little support in the critical time after birth.
I’m pro choice and happily voted for Hillary. But this article from Christian author Rachel Held Evans really spoke to me anyway (8 years of Catholic school and all). Please read if you identify as Christian and take issue with voting for pro-choice candidates.
http://rachelheldevans.com/blog/pro-life-voting-for-hillary-clinton
Christine, please tell your husband “thank you” from myself and the countless other women who have been saved by the truly good & selfless doctors like your husband. He does important work.
This is such an important viewpoint. Thank you. I have these same questions. (Pro-choice and voted Hillary)
Thank you, Christine, for you and your husband! My grandmother was poor and had no access to birth control in her day and her native country, and had 7 children. She tried to abort finally by throwing herself down the stairs. Her husband was mentally ill after being tortured in war and she worked outside the home to feed all those kids. I am a Christian and I thank God he blessed me to be in America, a country that allowed and accepted my decision to terminate an unwanted pregnancy safely and timely. I know God cared about me and was on board with it. This is the Christianity that I grew up with. Just want both sides to know religion and pro-choice do exist together for many of us women. And I am seriously speaking for a lot of them, even those who do not speak up about it (it is such a stigma to admit one had one!).
Christine, I applaud your husband!!!! I aplaud your letter! He is providing a vital, legal medical procedure to women in need. He is doing it in a profoundly anti-woman climate. And your “policy not just ideology” ending is exactly on point. The judgemental head in the sand attitude of the anti-choice movement is at its core just another version of ugly, religiously based misogyny.
I believe you can have both. Laws should not limit freedom. That is what liberty is by definition …the legal protection of freedom. Laws causing discrimination were repealed to allow the system to treat individuals equally. Some of today’s law intended to avoid individual discrimination by other individuals restore the government’s involvement in discrimination (therefore limiting freedom of individuals). We all need to stay the course, even if progress has been slow, and not return to a time when the state treated individuals differently. In time with changes to societal norms and with individuals acting their conscious we will have both the individual freedom we all want and the institutional equality that makes our country unique (dare I say exceptional?)
can one not value both freedom AND equality? Why is an unborn baby given no freedom or equality?
I think this is a really interesting and helpful way of looking at the situation. I too feel like I am in a like-minded bubble in San Francisco. It is very frustrating to look at the voter maps and see such an intense divide which really meant that there was no way everyone, or even most people would be happy. It certainly doesn’t feel like democracy to me and it’s hard not to be weighed down by all the negativity and anger and meanness through the last year+ of campaigning. I can say, as someone who is currently on Obamacare that it has been a true game changer for me. While it’s not cheap, by any means, it has allowed me to have good health coverage that is (just barely) affordable for me. I am no longer going to be able to afford my insurance in 2017 when the premiums will go up and I’m scared to think about what that will mean. While I know that this system is not perfect, far from it, and I hear how it has negatively affected many small business owners, I can’t help but see the benefit for myself and my family (my… Read more »
Thanks or sharing Max!! I think it’s good to get more information about the Affordable Care Act (especially for those it’s helped, like you!).
I think this is a very smart observation and yes! I’d be first in line to vote for a truly pro-life candidate. I think this election proved that the 2 party system is broken and Americans need more choices.
I am pro-life and totally agree with what your saying! I don’t think it should just be about making it illegal to have an abortion, the root problem is way larger. We need free contraceptives, low cost health care, and more jobs. This will lead to fewer abortions!!!
You are so right. Equality and freedom. Well said.
It is about freedom. For me it’s protection and freedom for the baby who is defenseless. What I don’t understand is why adoption isn’t encouraged more as a choice for people who are pro-choice? Is it because many times the baby is concieved in un-healthy situations? Is it too expensive? Not trying to be an idiot here I just don’t know anyone who’s had an abortion except one girl who had to, to save her own life. I didn’t know birth control was hard to get. Talk about breaking out of my bubble. Granted I am a mormon and we love to procreate but when I was in college, newly married I could get bc from the clinic at the university for 5$ a month. And my husband worked at a free clinic that gave condoms out for free. That was in a small town in Idaho 15 years ago. I am with Emily-obviously a simpler, easier, less heartbreaking answer to the abortion epidemic is education and access to birth control.
I am a liberal democrat and am pro-life and anti-abortion but am also pro-choice. There is a difference. Pro-choice means women control their own bodies. I don’t think anyone is pro-death.
I wish we could come to a better understanding about women’s health and the issues of choice. Abortion is terrible. I think it’s pretty clear that nobody is excited or happy about abortions. It’s been proven that better health programs and access to contraception lowers pregnancy rates, which lowers abortions. Taking away those programs will increase abortions, because people will not receive proper sex education and prevention. Period. And many, if not most abortions are performed because the mother’s life is at a serious risk, or the baby has a serious condition where they will absolutely not survive, if they’re not already in the process of miscarrying. For these women, it’s not some willy-nilly decision to just get rid of the baby. This is often the most heart wrenching and horrible decision of their lives. And then to have to come up with the staggering cost of the procedure, often having to travel to a different state, spending thousands of dollars, forced to listen to their dying, sick baby’s heartbeat – can you imagine going through that? What happens if you can’t afford the procedure, and it means you could die and there’s nobody that can help you? I had… Read more »
Maria Anne, I completely agree with everything you wrote. I’ve been a nurse in labor & delivery for over 20 years and probably the one patient that stands out the most was a married 20-something woman aborting her fetus due to anomalies not compatible with life. I took care of her for 12 hours that day, when all of my co-workers refused to take care of her because the don’t believe in abortion. This woman and her husband talked with me at length about the agonizing choice they made aborting their first pregnancy. They were devastated by it. It infuriates me that the right to choose what to do with our own bodies could be taken away by Trump. It infuriates me that my co-workers wouldn’t take care of her. I learned in nursing school to treat everyone equally. Even though it was such a sad day, I’m glad I was privileged to be her nurse. I still have the letter that she wrote me, thanking me for being there for her. I am pro-choice and voted for HRC.
“I just don’t believe anyone should be able to write their religious beliefs into law, affecting other people who don’t share the same view.”
THIS. Thank you Maria Anne for verbalizing my biggest consternation with the pro-life platform. No woman is pro-abortion, meaning no woman looks forward to having one, or having the need for one. Pro-choice is not pro-abortion, it’s saying the government does not have the right to impose one set of religious beliefs on a woman’s body. Could you imagine if it was a tenant from any other religion that was being pushed on the population at large? This country was built on the foundation of separation of church and state, I’m not sure how that concept has gotten so lost.
AGREE. Separation of church and state is fundamental to our government.
Isn’t that taught in social studies classes anymore?
Separation of church and state is meant to keep a specific religion from running the government. How does someone having views against abortion, which is in fact the killing of an unborn baby, be a church and state issue. We have laws about killing other humans don’t we? Aren’t we all in agreement that that is generally wrong? Not a church and state issue.
Emily – first and foremost, thanks for creating this dialogue. I’m a liberal New Yorker, and have been humbled about how ignorant I have been about my own country. I’m with you on getting back in touch. I support choice – and will always hope life is picked. But what is right for me is not the right decision for another woman, and it’s not up to me (or the lawmakers) to decide what she can or cannot do. Other liberals have talked about the lack of support of life when the baby is born. We offer NOTHING in terms of maternity leave or childcare support. I also believe the choice to abort is one that isn’t made lightly. Whatever she decides, the decision will affect the rest of her life. But it should be HER choice. In the immortal words of Ronald Reagan, “abortion should be safe, rare – and legal.” And while this nation was founded on Christian values (because it was also founded by white men – truth), there has been a clear distinction between church and state. The thought of eliminating safe access to abortion for any American woman horrifies me for that alone, but also… Read more »
sad! I am sorry. I gotta say I didn’t realize so many people were scared of TRUMP. I think he’s such a bozo I didn’t take anything he’s said seriously. Does this happen to you often?
WOW. Well said and great questions. I had this same conversation with someone several years ago that turned me from pro-life to pro-choice. She told me exactly what you just said, and it opened my eyes to things I never considered in my sheltered mid-western life. It started a chain reaction of opening my eyes to a lot of things….. I was raised in a conservative, christian house in the midwest …. and now I have slowly moved to the other side ….. no religion and very liberal.
Bravo, Maria Anne! I think you did a perfect job of explaining the pro-choice side of things without being condescending, which is hard to do on such an emotional issue.
This struck a chord with me. I am pro-choice and voted for Clinton. I have never considered having an abortion but found myself unexpectedly affected by the highly politicized world around the procedures associated with abortion. I lost a pregnancy in the second trimester. After the trauma of hearing NO heartbeat and being told I needed to have the dead fetus removed, I had so much trouble finding anyone who would perform the procedure (for ANY reason) that before I could get an appointment I ended up hemorrhaging badly and coming the closest I ever have to death. It was twice traumatizing. Those who would deny a woman’s right to choose have affected women’s healthcare options in more than one way.
Ann, my heart breaks for you – there are too many stories like yours.
I agree with 99% of what you are saying and I am pro-life but I don’t think it should be illegal. I also don’t understand why saying you are pro-life makes you “religious”. Can’t people value life without being called that?
I didn’t vote for Trump (no way, no how), but from what I’ve heard through conversations with and Facebook posts by people who did vote for him, abortion is was huge issue–big enough to eclipse every other issue on the table, as Anna said above. From their perspective, the logic went like this: electing a man who says some regrettable things is worth it if you’re saving babies from being killed.
Again, not my beliefs, just trying to add to the hopefully constructive conversation. As a liberal who grew up in Texas, I think I may be in less of a bubble than a lot of my liberal friends from my adopted homes of California and Massachusetts. But the fact that I’m less surprised by this result does not lessen the pain of it, sadly.
Yep, you nailed it.
I didn’t vote for Trump – I could fine nothing in myself to put this man who is incredibly inexperienced, and seemingly hateful for everyone who is not him, in office.
But I know MANY Christians who voted for him because they believe he will end abortion.
My husband and I are very pro-life, but after having adopted our black daughter, what that means to us has radically changed (maybe expanded is a better word?). I am devastated to see so many Christians to be pro-unborn life, but also so hateful towards life that already exists.
I believe the Christian church failed in a HUGE way in this election, and we will now suffer the consequences.
Monica, thank you for sharing! I am very liberal, and I’ve struggled to explain this exact point to many of my Christian family members. Will test out your approach over the holidays :).
I’m really at a loss how being pro-life trumps (no pun intended) sexually assaulting women and all other Christian morals. Whatever happened to love thy neighbor as thyself?
I also don’t understand how anyone can believe a word the man says. He only cares about himself and lies all the time. God knows what his views actually are and what he will do when he governs.
i didn’t vote but i have lost faith in our Govenrment it Lies costant and hides stuff from us and hillary did the same by killing people with her emails and lies, she has said racist things in the past but when it was time to Get what she wants she sucks up to america only a fool would believe it.
I really don’t understand why abortion is still such a guiding issue for so many people. Why do you care what someone else does with their life and body? And what do you think this set of Republicans is going to do about it? I really would like to know. Is the goal to de-fund Planned Parenthood? Or overturn Roe v. Wade? Or make it even harder for women to access abortions? Or something else?
Separately, I applaud this post. I voted for Hillary, but never really was “with her.” I fall into a mix of Stacey’s 3a and 3b list above. I think that a lot of people voted against her and the establishment rather than for Trump.
I really think that this kind of open, respectful discussion is what is necessary to move our country forward. It’s a bad idea to be completely disconnected from what someone with opposing views believes. It’s a really bad idea to encourage hate because of these disagreements. Only through discussion can we find common ground and compromise. In the end, we all want what is best for our country and children.
I suspect that for many people this is a good place to start deciding about a candidate. It’s so hard to narrow down who might best represent you, especially in the beginning when there are many options. It’s easy to have a small checklist like pro life vs pro choice and guns vs gun control. Things like economic policy and trade and international policy are so incredibly complex and summertime it’s hard to figure out how it will make a difference in your life so people fall back on small things to help guide their choice. I am sure many people narrow the field based on things like this and then go on to try and navigate the harder bits. I could be wrong but I know when I was younger I had much more hard and fast rules in my head like this, things seemed so black and white.
Casey, I know it wasn’t your intent, but flip statements like that are dismissive and shut down conversation. Previous commenters have pretty clearly articulated that they don’t just see abortion as a woman’s independent act, but rather an act involving another living human. For many of them it’s as if you were saying: “I really don’t get why murder is such a guiding issue for most people”. I realize that you don’t see it that way, and that’s ok. I don’t either. But unless you understand why it is such a literal horror for people you won’t be able to understand why it moves them so. Would you fight to stop murder from happening if you felt that it was being regularly perpetrated to simplify someone’s life when they were only being faced with the consequences of their own free choices? Of course you would. (And I am not referring to abortion for health, mother’s life, rape and incest and etc. Many pro-life advocates grant necessity for that and don’t condemn it at all.) That is how they see it. You most certainly don’t have to see it that way, but for them it is a deeply moral issue that… Read more »
Thank you Jen, for this kind reminder. Here is where I get lost when it comes to conversations about the sanctity of life: if this is the core of the issue for the pro-life position, why don’t we see more pro-lifers protesting against the death penalty, or concerned about the fate of children born into poverty? Catholic nuns are a good example, to my mind, of what “pro life” would look like if implemented across the board.
I think it’s because pro-lifers want to protect an innocent baby and the death penalty is seen as justice for someone who commited murder. Who took another life. I am not for the death penalty but I understand why some of my republican family/friends are.
You want what is best for this countries’ children and yet you support abortion and even late term abortion as Hillary does?
I truly don’t understand how you reconcile those diametrically opposing philosophies. How do you make killing babies OK in your mind? I truly don’t understand that thought process that all of you Hillary supporters seem to have in common. Have you convinced yourselves that abortion isn’t really a killing process but merely a medical procedure? I will never change my stance on abortion, I just truly don’t understand how a woman can kill a child.
To me, abortion is not “doing something with your body.” It is killing another person. That’s why I care.
You know what’s really interesting? If an unborn baby is wanted, killing it, often at even the earliest stages of gestation, is in many parts of the US considered homicide. . Let that sink in for a moment. It’s life if the mother wants it. If it’: unwanted? Just tissue. Really?
I know this is off topic, but you asked.
I didn’t vote for Trump and I live in a state that reliably votes for Democrats (other than for governor) and I agree that I must be so out of touch with what so much of the electorate feels. It makes me sad and I really appreciate this hopeful post because if we can’t find common ground we will all become more divided. And I wish I knew ways to become more involved and active to support the values and causes I believe in, because while I always vote, it doesn’t always feel like my vote has much of an impact.
This may be naive of me, but I wish that being pro life and supporting a woman’s right to choose didn’t have to be mutually exclusive. I have two beautiful children, one girl and one boy. I’m not sure I could ever make a decision to have an abortion and I would never want to be faced with that decision. I think abortions should be safe, legal, and most importantly, rare. But I would never want someone else’s choice to be taken from them. Especially not my daughter’s.
perfectly said
So you care more about people who haven’t been born yet than the world we already live in and the people who already exist? You care about unborn children, but you’re TOTALLY FINE with them being born in a bigoted, sexist country, where being diagnosed with cancer or wanting a higher education can mean life-ruining debt, on a dying planet? Help me understand.
I think the people who are pro-life, from my experience, don’t see it as baby vs mother. In their mind, both survive healthily. Some abortions are that black and white- people just not wanting a baby. But obviously, not all of them. I think the issue is that no one is %100 educated on what the issues surrounding abortion are. My FIL is and OBGYN and I had a close friend who worked at planned parenthood. There are a lot of misconceptions on both sides.
100% ha
I guess I have a hard time understanding how they can be so passionate about a life that isn’t even in the world yet but seem not to care about those people who already exist that need help.
As the parent of a premature child that I held to my chest when she weighed only 1 lb 13 oz (who has NO health problems thanks to amazing advances in medical care), I of course am “so passionate about a life that isn’t even in the world yet” while also caring about “those people who already exist that need help”. To think that babies weighing only ounces less than my child are killed in the womb is heart wrenching to me… just as heart wrenching as injustices that are seen around our country and world. I can’t tell someone what choice they need to make, but I know my own personal belief and stance on the matter.
I appreciate this conversation and have been asking myself a similar question all morning. I understand pro-life is very important for many, but I don’t understand how you can be pro-life and vote for someone who discriminates against women, minorities, religions, etc. How can those two conflicting stances go together?
Hillary Clinton and her family happily look the other way while taking millions of dollars in “donations” from countries which have despicable, dare I say deplorable laws regarding women.
To me, Hillary and her husband personify the adage “your actions speak so loudly I can’t hear what you’re saying”.
Yes, this. I know many who voted Trump and it boiled down to the last debate, when HRC defended a woman’s right to terminate the life of her child in the 3rd trimester and DT argued the opposite.
I will also add that our area has a very strong military presence and it is simply impossible for that community to brush off what happened in Benghazi. These are their husbands and sons, their fathers and their brothers. It was not some distant event that had little bearing on their lives the way it might be for people in a more liberal community who may not even know anyone who is actively serving.
My confusion on the Benghazi issue is that the investigations that Republicans in Congress held cleared her of any wrongdoing. I have a student who is in ROTC and he is really upset today about what his future holds, because Trump is so off the rails about what kind of military interventions he intends.
I am not religious and couldn’t be more pro-choice, so I’ve really never been able to wrap my head around why/how someone could be so invested in what someone else does with their own body and healthcare. Perhaps I’m ingesting different information, but what about Trump signals to you that he is very pro-life at all, aside that he has mentioned that abortion should come with some form of punishment (aside from, you know, the horrific experience of having to make that decision and undergo the procedure and then live with that memory)? Has he really been that outspoken about his thoughts on abortion? (I truly don’t know.). And even so, and even if it’s tied so closely to your religious beliefs, could just that one issue be enough for you to look beyond the multitude of unchristian-like, uncivilized, abusive and possibly criminal behaviors that he has displayed? Honestly, please help me understand that equation because it just doesn’t add up for me.
The other thing that puzzles me about someone voting for Trump exclusively or largely because one is pro-life is that Trump himself, for most of his life, expressed pro-choice views. It seems one thing to ignore flip-flopping because all politicians do it, but another thing to vote exclusively on an issue where the politician’s stance seems so clearly to be a matter of political expediency.
I applaud this effort at meaningful dialog!
I’m sorry, with all due respect, do you honestly believe Donald Trump is pro-life and Christian? He didn’t even know how to say Second Corinthians.
His actions, his words, his life, show almost evidence of someone who believes in anything remotely Christian. He has been lying to you.
For all the concern over a fetus, the GOP has traditionally been a group that has cut entitlements to poor women and children, including health care, food stamps, Head Start education. Not to mention wanting to restrict access to birth control, which would prevent abortions in the first place. So you’ll have to forgive me if I don’t understand how someone can call themselves “pro-life” if they don’t seem interested in helping children or women after their born.
That should say “they’re” not “their.” Yikes, long day.
I’ve always wondered what pro-life people think about giving the U.S. government the potential investigate a miscarriage as a potential crime scene. In my experience, miscarriages are painful enough, and to think that we could give the U.S. gov’t the potential to add another layer of misery to that is enough to support policies that are pro-women’s rights. Our government is not the moral police. It exists to keep us safe. As a society, I believe we should work together to make the desire for a woman to seek an elective abortion non-existent through comprehensive sex-education and significantly more support for mothers, infants, children, working mothers, families in general, via quality health care and child care. However, there is not much you can do about the inevitable heart-breaking situations that come about when you have a very much wanted and loved pregnancy with a significantly abnormal, non-viable fetus, ones where organs are grown outside of the body, etc. We have NO RIGHT to shame mothers in these cases for their choices. No matter what they choose, that is heartbreaking. The government has no right to be involved in any of these extremely difficult and life-shattering decisions. These reasons are why… Read more »
I just wanted to add some perspective, since there are so many comments from people who are having such a hard time understanding the pro-life mentality. In the same way that pro-choicers are not pro-abortion, so are pro-lifers not anti-woman.. we are simply pro-life, for the life of the baby. And unfortunately when choice is given, death is a result. We believe that life is valuable, so valuable that it trumps “choice”. This is why we care so much about what another woman does with her body. Because it is more than just her body. The government is not forcing you to have a baby. Biology is. We want the government to not allow a procedure that is harmful to life. In the same way we would not want the government allowing physical harm to a life outside of the womb. There are plenty of laws that prohibit us from doing certain things with our body, not allowing certain ages to smoke or drink, not allowing persons to drink and drive, etc. These all legally take away your choice to do something, and yet it is so because we all understand that such behavior has consequences. Sad, tragic consequences. Pro-lifers… Read more »
When choice is given, death is a result. When choice is not given MORE DEATH is the result. UGH!
For anyone who thinks that abortion is a black and white issue, with no grey area, I encourage you to read this very difficult interview in full – http://jezebel.com/interview-with-a-woman-who-recently-had-an-abortion-at-1781972395
I am pro choice and part of me hopes Roe v Wade is overturned.
I do think it is taking a seedling of life, it’s not simply about what women can do with their bodies. However, no one can make that decision for the woman, she is the best person to decide.
Part of me wishes the supreme court had never taken Roe v Wade, abortion going through the legislature. Part of me wishes it’s overturned and taken to the legislature, settling it ONCE AND FOR ALL, so we can focus on policy issues and not keep voting on abortion over and over again. I believe that in this day and age, most states would immediately legalize abortion, the others following soon; if they didn’t, let’s not forget many areas don’t have easy access to abortion as it is, as not all doctors wish to perform it.
I don’t think Trump really cares about abortion, or social policy in general, he paid lip service to it only.
It won’t be settled in the legislature once and for all. And for those of us stuck in red states, it means we won’t have access.
Mae–I find this line of reasoning confusing. Supreme Court cases are much, much more final than legislation. In many ways, Roe DID decide the issue once and for all. Yes, a future Supreme Court could theoretically overturn the case, but it would be up against the doctrine of stare decisis. It’s rare and difficult to overturn a Supreme Court holding, and that’s part of why it has not been done since Roe, even with a conservative SCOTUS. Legislation, by contrast, can be repealed or changed by any legislature at any time for any reason. We would be debating the issue even more than we are now (ad infinitum?) without Roe.
Thank you, Emily. I’ve just spent the last few hours reading through all the comments on what is probably the most respectful forum on the entire internet today. A journalist friend who has covered Trump rallies summed up the reasons for Trump’s win as he saw it – which are precisely what I see reflected here – as well as the consequences he sees to a Trump presidency: “I met a lot of decent people, a lot of bright people — former Democrats, people of color (a handful), people who were explicitly or implicitly racist — but mainly people who bought Trump’s talk on one issue and were willing to overlook everything else about him. I know that the people drawn to his message mostly didn’t buy the flimflammery, the p*y-grabbing, the constant self-contradiction and truth-abdicating. They just really, really hated Hillary Clinton, (for reasons they might do well to reflect on). In fact, many of them are not looking to destroy the very fabric of what America stands for. They want togetherness… They don’t know that the message they backed hurts so many people and tears us apart. They didn’t intend to normalize the anti-Semitic and homophobic Tweets I’ve… Read more »
I’m a 25-year-old liberal feminist, living on the East Coast, and voted for Hillary. But my hometown is a small, rural town in the Midwest (near a string of many other small towns, with no large cities anywhere close), where the majority of the people voted for Trump (including pretty much all of my family). I think for them it boils down to a host of reasons: 1. Many rural, small-town Midwest workers work in blue collar jobs that are threatened by liberal environmental and economic policies. Many, many people in my hometown rely on coal mining as their families source of income and they are very worried about not being able to provide for their families if they lose their jobs with coal mines being shut down (and many, many mines have been shut down there). There aren’t other forms of industry coming in to replace the coal mining jobs, so they have no other work to take on. Many are not college educated, so they don’t have many other options for work. And they are attached to their land and roots and don’t want to move elsewhere or to bigger cities to look for work. They look to… Read more »
Caitlin,
This DID help me better understand a faction of Trump-supporters. Your accounting of “the ones left-behind” was credible b/c you had actually grown-up in rural America and b/c you compassionately & concisely expressed that vantage point. “They are not intentionally racist, but they don’t know anyone from a different race” (paraphrased)…so this is a matter of non-exposure to different people and positions (i.e. pro-choice when you’ve only ever been taught about pro-life) and that makes sense. It also makes me a bit sad b/c it seems like these are folks who are “trapped” in a certain life, job, set of beliefs. Folks who maybe don’t feel empowered to change their own circumstances or are encouraged to be open-minded (& I imagine there are some who just don’t want to).
I did not vote for trump and was strong in my belief as Hillary being a great president. I will say that I live in Atlanta and am surrounded by like minded folks. I also grew up in the ‘burbs of Atlanta and knew a few people who said they were voting Trump. As one of my brothers friends who has 2 daughters put it “I wouldn’t let Trump be around my daughter, but I wouldn’t want Hillary to run the daycare”. I am thinking, though this is just an assumption, that him and others in his circle truly believe that Hillary has been lying about everything. I think years of constant negative stories and half truths are what a lot of people used to make their decision. I have also seen people post that they thought they were between a rock and a hard place and they ultimately voted on who was more likable, which to them was trump. Why? I don’t know.
Agreed. Both of my parents are convinced that Hillary is some kind of criminal even though the justice system has repeatedly exonerated her. I’m just trying to treat everyone the way I treat my parents, I love them and respect them, but I also fundamentally disagree with them about what is best for our country.
I’m in the same boat with my parents. Although I am tempted to agree with their view that if she wasn’t Hillary Clinton and running for President, she would have been prosecuted for her actions regarding the emails. (As my mom puts it (she had top secret clearance) “If I had done what she did, I’d be in jail, no questions asked”)
While I have to choose to believe that is not the case….I can see where they are coming from.
My understanding is that she was not “exonerated” in the email scandal, but that there wasn’t enough to successfully prosecute her. To me, that does not mean she is “absolved of any wrongdoing;” to the contrary, if you read Comey’s statement on it, it is clear that she mishandled information and was careless in her treatment of information. Basically, as the Secretary, she should have known better. https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system In the larger picture, I am a small-business owner in the health care sector in a rural area of California. I’ve disliked Trump’s antics all along and was embarrassed that he ended up the Republican nominee. I struggled with whether to vote for Trump or not vote at all (HRC was never a viable choice for me) and my overwhelming feeling yesterday was shock that he won and sadness at the division between left and right and vitriolic nature of the comments of many on the left in light of a Trump victory. Many things influence my political leanings; primary among them this time was feeling like I and people like me have been left behind. I haven’t had the sense of optimism and hope for my future and the future of… Read more »
It wasn’t me, I can assure you of that! You should’ve asked your uber driver if he’s heard of Angela Merkel. (probably not, I’d guess)
I lay this mess at the feet of the media in this country. They promoted Trump EVERY SINGLE DAY for almost a year. In my opinion, that was completely irresponsible. And now the chickens have come home to roost.
I just can’t stop crying today, especially every time I think of my daughter. I feel like the country I grew up in and loved is unrecognizable to me this morning and I’m not sure where I belong.
I voted for Hillary, enthusiastically. But I’m a Christian in the South, and myriad people in my community, people I’m friends with, voted for Trump. The primary reason for many is abortion – even if he’s terrible, he’ll nominate pro-life judges so it’s justified. I’m pro-life myself, but abortion rates go down under democratic presidents, and I believe that social policies that support parents and women are better at reducing abortion than a simple ban (eg, pro-life, not just pro-birth). Secondarily, people just don’t like Hillary – for some reason they think of her as a crook, when she’s just a politician who behaves no differently than any male politician. Also, although it’s not always explicitly stated (but sometimes it is), many people in my community do not believe women belong in leadership. Which really makes me sad. I can sort of understand the abortion issue, although I disagree, but at the end of the day, my belief that women can do anything a man can do if she works hard is wrong. And that is heart-breaking.
Ashley, you are on point. Thank you.
Ashley, I could have written that myself! (Except I’m not a southerner and I don’t know any trump supporters)
Emily, thank you for your bravery. I believe with my whole heart that the only way forward as a country is to dialogue and listen with respect, communicating our beliefs with passion but patience.
Ashley, thanks so much for sharing this. I hope that your perspective can help other Christians start to take a broader look at the pro-life v pro-choice debate!
Thank you, Ashley. We really could find common ground on reducing abortion if the right would shift focus from banning it to supporting what is PROVEN to reduce it: empowering women and making birth control easily available. (Empowered women USE birth control).
I like you. So well said and so well informed. Thank you.
Ashley, this is so well said and such an excellent point. Thank you for sharing. I can’t imagine that anyone would ever ‘want’ to have to make the choice to have an abortion. Education and supportive social policies reduces the number of situations where people are forced to make that terribly difficult choice. History around the world has proven than banning access to legal abortion does not stop them happening.
Trump was a risk- we don’t know exactly what he’ll do with the presidency. However, Hillary’s stance was very clear. For those of us that don’t agree with her plans/platforms for various reasons, we took the risk of Trump.
I by no means agree with the hateful things Trump has said in the past, but I also don’t feel comfortable electing someone that has shown other forms of questionable behavior and is currently under investigation by the FBI.
I have no hate for either side, and am thankful that we can all voice our own opinions through our votes.
The FBI excuse is no longer something that works. They found nothing every single time they tried.
In regards to your first line I’ve also heard the poignant phrase that applies: Everyone is focused on what he MIGHT do wrong instead of what she has proven that she has already DONE wrong and I think that’s why a lot of votes went his direction. Saying this from a neutral perspective, but it sheds some light on the fear people may have had toward voting for her. Proven record versus what MAY happen. (or may not).
Respectfully, i would have to push back on that. Her accomplishments massively outweigh her mistakes. Many people focus only on the mistakes and ignore everything positive she’s accomplished.
If it’s the emails, she was using Bill’s server prior to starting as Secretary of State and out of inertia, poor technical savvy, and the fact that use of private email is *extremely* common in US government (Colin Powell used an @aol.com account while in office), she continued using the email on her Blackberry that she was comfortable with.
If it’s Benghazi, the requests for extra security never reached her desk. She was not at fault for the deaths there.
She has faithfully served the public good for decades. Today is a very sad day for me.
What accomplishments? Name them (other than winning elections or being nominated to a cabinet position – actual things that got done).
Rachel,
It is incorrect to say that use of private email is extremely common for government communications, especially at that level and for the types of things discussed in her emails.
My husband works in IT Security with the government and military, and they use their .mil email addresses for all government communications, ESPECIALLY for classified emails. Classified emails are supposed to travel across a completely separate, more secure network. If my husband would even send one classified email from something like a gmail or yahoo account (let alone something hackable like a phone) he would likely lose his job and could face criminal charges.
That’s what flabbergasts me. She does have a proven record, most of which has been positive. She’s been in politics for a really long time. In any job you fail at some things and you learn from them. Right? It just happens that hers are on record and in front of the public. He has absolutely no track record. Not a single thing. We have no idea what he will do or is capable of. All we have are the things he has said which are frankly quite scary.
Peyton, I ask this in all sincerity – can you please provide a list of everything HRC has allegedly “done wrong”? Honestly, I have yet to hear a single HRC-hater cite a list of her wrongs. Surely to god it could not be as impressive as The Donald’s.
Interesting! Could you give me some more context on what she’s done wrong? Would love to understand a bit more to broaden my perspective!
So what happens if Trumps is deemed guilty next month when he goes on trial for sexual assault and rape accusations? I’m sure his hundreds of lawyers are doing whatever they can to make sure that doesn’t happen…but what if it does? Would you be okay if a convicted sex offender / felon / whatever he would be labeled as is in the white house?
Literally every accusation that has been thrown at him has been debunked. Every one. Why are they coming out of the woodwork when Bill’s past (which is MUCH more expansive than Monica) was being brought to the forefront? Trump has been a famous figure for decades and there have been no sexual assault allegations until recently. Absurd.
As a mother of 5 kids (4 daughters) I would love to have a women president. I would also like a president that doesn’t support late term abortions. I would also like a president that would repeal Obamacare. I would also like a president that doesn’t verbally attack women. But I can’t support a woman that defended sex offenders in court. Between mysterious deaths, wiped servers and questionable legitimacy of the Clinton foundation and it’s funds I have to many reservations. I actually voted for an independent but Trump was my 2nd choice mainly because I think he will chose Supreme Court Justices that will reflect my stances better.
May I ask, why are you opposed to late term abortion? These abortions do not occur upon the whim of a capricious woman. They are only done in situations where the mother’s life is at significant risk or if the fetus cannot survive outside the womb. What would you have a woman do if she could die during labor? I’m honestly asking, I really don’t understand the opposition to late-term abortion. If the fetus could survive outside the womb, they would simply deliver early. No one is killing viable babies.
It is scientific fact that by only 8 weeks a fetus has unique dna, a heartbeat, and recoils at a prick. Obviously most abortions are performed after that. I would have an easier time reconciling abortion if “no one is killing viable babies” but thats just not the case. Medical advancements still are very unclear about what happens in the womb. I personally know people who were told their babies wouldn’t survive outside the womb and their baby was born completely healthy. The medical field doesn’t have it all figured out as much as they think we do.
A fetus is not considered “viable” until it could feasibly survive outside of the womb. So regardless of the innate reflexes an 8 week old fetus might have, they are not considered “viable”.
Also, as a mother of a baby who was born and later died of a complex congenital heart defect, I’ve come to know several incredibly brave women who have made the gut-wrenching decision to terminate their pregnancies after receiving a late diagnosis (many complex birth defects are missed at routine, 20 week ultrasounds) because the chance that their baby will survive birth AND the near immediate open-heart surgery is minute, at best.
You cannot blame a mother from wanting to spare her much-wanted child that suffering (please look into how a late-term abortion is ACTUALLY performed, not through an anti-abortion website).
Yes he/she cannot survive outside the womb, but depriving them of life nonetheless makes it murder. You’re taking the potential away from them, and 99% of the time they would keep growing and be fine outside the womb. It is women playing God, when He is the one that placed the child in the womb to begin with. No one is forcing women to be parents–there are plenty of women dying to become mothers that would love to adopt. My cousin had a life-threatening pregnancy which is SO RARE, was told to abort the pregnancy and simply could not kill the life inside of her. She was admitted to the hospital, monitored, the baby passed away, and she was right where she needed to be to get proper care. Crappy things happen sometimes that threaten womens’ lives, but why is it okay to choose one life over another in ANY situation??
Also, one of my best friends had a baby with a congenital heart defect and was told to abort. Baby needed surgery after she was born, but is fine now and thriving. I cannot imagine how things would be if she had listened to those doctors…like I said, it’s playing God when we already have a very capable God.
My sweet baby was born with a CHD a year and a half ago. It was never detected in an ultrasound. She had open heart surgery when she was 5 days old. I was so blessed to live near an incredible hospital with talented surgeons and caring staff. She’s a fighter and survived and I am thankful for her every single day. But I hope that if I had known about the defect before her birth that I still would have given her the chance to live. And if she hadn’t lived I hope I could have handled her death with grace. I just wonder how many important world changing lives aren’t given the chance to survive?
Yes, I’d like to see us start to sedate and administer painkillers before these procedures. It would be more humane!
I mean painkillers for the fetus –
THIS!
I’m sorry, but you are mistaken. Women are absolutely able to obtain late-term abortions for reasons other than fetal anomaly. For example, a woman can state that she is in distress from a psychological standpoint, and there is no “proof” required to be granted the procedure.
The “life of the mother” does not hold up, either. If you are trying to save the life of the mother, you perform a cesarean — you don’t abort the baby.
Please do some research about what late-term abortion entails, and then ask yourself if that is ever truly necessary. Get ready for some unpleasant reading. My experience is that many people who “don’t understand the opposition to late-term abortion” don’t truly know what the procedure entails. Please educate yourself if you are going to defend it.
I recently read a heart wrenching story where the mom was forced with a very difficult decision to have a late term abortion (I think she was about 30 weeks along) – the baby stopped growing in the womb and would not survive long after birth. They couldn’t do a C-section because the mom had recently undergone heart surgery and a c-section would put her own life in extreme danger. I’m not going to go further into the story, but there are times where a c-section isn’t an option.
Hopefully you are voting to pay for child care, food, health care, for these innocent babies you care about so much. Many of the pro- life people are the ones who want to cut programs that support these same babies once they are born, or they are 5, 10, 15 years old. They don’t want their tax dollars going to “welfare queens”
Please read about accreta, it’s very life threatening for the mother. I would say in almost all cases, that the day a woman is having a late term abortion is one of the very worst days of that woman’s life.
Hello, I just wanted to clarify that late term abortions are not a legal or medical reality.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/health/donald-trump-debate-late-abortion-remarks.html
In states that do not have an adequately funded public defender system, lawyers are appointed to defend accused criminals. That is what happened in Hillary Clinton’s case. Lawyers have an ethical obligation to zealously defend clients. Once she was appointed, she had an obligation to defend the accused. The Supreme Court determined that counsel needs to be provided in all criminal cases.
“But I can’t support a woman that defended sex offenders in court.”
You must really hate the concept of public defenders, then. Good thing you’re not a lawyer, huh?
Hi Taylor, I believe when you say you “can’t support a woman that defended sex offenders in court,” you’re referring to the 1975 case where Mrs. Clinton represented a criminal defendant accused of rape. When lawyers are sworn into the practice of law, they swear to uphold the state Constitution in which they are barred and the federal Constitution. Under the federal Constitution, the 6th Amendment assures a right to counsel in federal proceedings, which was extended to state felony proceedings under the supreme court case Gideon v. Wainwright. State Constitutions provide for the right to counsel in criminal matters as well (public defenders, and when there is a conflict, a court-appointed counsel outside the public defender’s office). Hillary Clinton (then Rodham) was court-appointed by a judge to represent a criminal defendant accused of rape. The judge would not release Hillary from her appointment to the case, so she had a professional duty as an attorney to represent the criminal defendant zealously. She did her due diligence as a member of the Arkansas Bar to represent that criminal defendant and to uphold the Constitutional right to counsel that every criminal defendant has. I hope this can help you understand from… Read more »
Catharine, thanks for sharing this background for the folks that heard this taken out of context.
Catherine*!
Thank you, Catherine. For the record, the rapist Clinton was assigned to defend pleaded guilty, probably at Clinton’s advice. This was a good outcome since the girl and her family did not want her to have to be put on trial (as happens to rape victims) in a court room. The outcome was as good as possible given the circumstances.
You do understand that she was appointed to defend him, don’t you? Please research the truth behind your statement. Even rapists are entitled to representation in our country. The lawyers called on to defend them do not endorse rape; they believe in our due process.
Thank you for putting into words, what I could not.
While I don’t agree, and I think Trump presents far more questionable acts, I do appreciate that you have policy reasons for voting the way you did. Thank you for sharing.
Can I offer some perspective on Clinton’s public defender role in the 1970s? Because it’s not just about Clinton — her race is done — but about any public defender who may run for office in the future. On the surface it sounds absolutely horrific, no doubt about it, but ultimately the right to due process and equal protection under the law is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution. Last month a friend of a friend posted a very lengthy explanation of how the process works that as a non-lawyer I found very enlightening. I don’t feel comfortable linking here since I don’t know her personally, but I’ll try to summarize what I found to be the key takeaways: Lawyers take a professional oath that requires them to provide every client the best possible representation. It isn’t ethical to provide a lazy defense, no matter how heinous the crime was and how guilty the defendant seems. If the DA doesn’t do a good job she may have try the case again during the appeals process (bad), but it also sets a precedent for denying other people due process and equal protection (worse). What if one day someone you love finds himself… Read more »
Oops, I see I was late to hit reply!
Megan,
Happy to have you respond as a non-lawyer as well! My view is obviously espoused within my “lawyer” perspective.
Thank you for this post.
I am curious to read these responses. As a gay, Arab American male I am frightened and confused for my future and personal safety in my own country in a way I have never been. I’ve cried a lot.
Peoples eagerness and pride in supporting this man speaks volumes about our country and I feel like the facade of a “post racial Obama world” people liked to speak about are obviously incorrect.
We should be better than this.
Love and peace to you, I’m so sorry for what you’re going through right now. Trump does not reflect the America that I’m so proud and grateful to be a part of.
On your note about “post racial,” what you’re saying is right in line with a Revisionist History podcast Malcom Gladwell did this summer. He talked about how so many times throughout history, people groups have done something progressive and then followed it with so many more discriminant/racist/sexist actions and used the excuse that they had done one progressive thing so they weren’t actually racists/sexists. I’m not sure if I’m explaining it very well but that podcast episode has helped me have so much more clarity and understanding of why so many people that I love and respect are supporting a man for whom I cannot fathom supporting.
I’m linking the podcast just in case you want to take a listen, http://revisionisthistory.com/episodes/01-the-lady-vanishes .
Thank you for your comment. I’ll check out this podcast. What you are explaining makes complete sense!
thank you, Emily.
I went back and forth for a long time whether to vote trump or third party. As a person I Dont like him but i think she is corrupt. Ultimately it came down to the fact that I am very conservative and was very concerned about supreme court appointees. That is what eventually put me over the edge.
I am pleased to see the civil, kind exchange going on here. I am also just so relieved the election is over. It has been so stressful for everyone (or me at least).
I really disliked both candidates.
Thank you for being brave enough to ask the question. As a Republican who did not vote for Trump, I also wondered why.
I live in a solidly blue state (MD) so I was able to vote for a third party candidate, however I do understand why people voted for Trump. To me, this article gives the best explanation of why, as a college educated coast dweller it can be so hard to understand why people voted for him. I also want to echo some of the comments below. I think many people didn’t vote for him, they voted against Hillary and more of the same.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/11/09/trump-won-because-college-educated-americans-are-out-of-touch/
I found this book review of “Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis” by J.D. Vance in the New Yorker to be pretty insightful in understanding a bit more about the disenfranchised working class whites who really helped to put Trump into office: http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-lives-of-poor-white-people I’m also in Maryland and voted for Hillary. I do work in Carroll County, MD & have co-workers in MD, PA, TX & LA – all from areas who went Trump, so I did see quite a few Trump supporters. I think I mostly agree with other people here who say that they voted for Trump because: 1. They vote Republican regardless of candidate because their fundamental beliefs are generally represented by that party, as I will almost always vote Democrat; 2. They think Hillary is a crook, even aside from the e-mails; 3. As Christians, they believe that Trump would protect their religious interests better than Hillary (although I interpret that as more of a vote towards Pence & towards the Supreme Court nomination than Trump); 4. They fall in the upper class or middle-upper class range & Republicans tend to protect their financial interests . . . My best friend… Read more »
Kate,
I’ve read about a 3rd of the way down this page and I think your response pretty much encapsulates, in a very thoughtful, pragmatic way, what most of the others have tried to explain about why people voted for trump. I applaud your insight.
I, like many others, am very sad to know that just under half of American voters voted for a con “artist.” As ignorant as he is about many things, he is a VERY smart shyster. According to a co-worker, his campaign used Art of the Deal as their playbook.
Sad, sad day for ALL Americans, mostly those who believe he’ll make good on his promises.
Claudia
Kate,
I have never know a politician yet Republican or Democrat that wasn’t a salesman. I enjoyed reading some of your perspectives on why Trump won. There’s a lot of Monday morning quarter backing going on right now with political analysts, pollsters, etc who plainly got it WRONG!
I do not live in your country but have followed this election closely, for what it’s worth here’s what I think…..the blame lies in the DNC, the White House, the Justice Department (Loretta Lynch), the media, and the FBI, it strongly appears they shielded, protected, lied, covered for, etc. for Hillary (do your homework, it’s all there), if they had not done this and let democracy rule, Bernie Sanders may have been running instead and today you might have had a different President. If anyone has the right to be angry it’s the Bernie Sanders supporters…..that’s all, hope this is helpful and I haven’t stepped on anyone’s toes!….love your blog Emily.
Leanne, as a third culture kid and someone who feels very much like America is my adopted home because I didn’t grow up here, I completely agree with you! All of the reasons you listed are spot on.. It felt very much like HRC was set up to run (and win) this race and as such any obstacles to that were removed or overturned.
I currently live in Los Angeles and I can tell you that this city was behind Bernie for months leading up to election. Bumperstickers and lawn signs and apparal everywhere! It actually came as quite a shock when he lost to HRC and did not become the nominee because I didn’t really know or see many who supported her. It does seem as though if they hadn’t pushed so hard for her we would all have a very different result. I believe that if it was Bernie v Trump, we’d have Bernie.
#truth
This exactly. I didn’t want Trump. But I didn’t want Hillary either. I wanted the first woman president to not be a crook.
I live in a swing state. I am an evangelical Christian, who is politically moderate. I was conflicted in this election, and although I didn’t vote Trump, I have many friends and family whom I respect (and some who I don’t respect) who did. The biggest issues for me are the issues of pro-life and the traditional marriage. Those aren’t litmus tests for me in voting, but the potential appointment of 1-3 Supreme Court Justices are a big deal in the law. With Trump being conservative (at least from what he has said and who he has put around him), his 4-8 years would likely keep the Supreme Court from going too far away from my values. I am not going to go into how my faith shapes my views on those issues, and I hope people will respect my opinions and my decision to hold my tongue after this.
Mad respect to you for asking these questions. I think everyone needs to have people around them that are different than them, while still respecting and dialogue together. I hope you can find some in person, as well.
Hey Kelly, thank you so much for sharing your opinion. This election was a huge wake up call — like Emily, I don’t know anyone who voted for Trump, but I am so OVER vilifying people who think differently than me. I believe that diversity is our country’s greatest asset, and that includes political diversity. Hey, we both agree that Supreme Court appointments are really important! lol
Thank you for your refreshing view. I think vilifying people who believe and think differently causes so much division. I love america and the diversity in her. This morning I decided that the one thing I CAN do is try to love my neighbors better.
Thank you, Kelly, for being willing to share your perspective in a way that I can relate to.
I did not vote for him, but I know many people who did. For some, it was a single issue such as abortion. They were fearful that with Hillary Clinton as president, there would be an increase in the number of abortions, and sanctity of life is their highest concern. I have also heard some tell me they were voting for Trump because they think his economic policies would be best (a strong economy and reduction of the national debt was their priority). I have family members who own a small business and have had very negative experiences with the universal health care system under the Obama administration, and they were voting for Trump in hopes of changing that. Many others are frustrated with politics and the way our government operates (corruption, not working together, etc.), and a vote for Trump was a hope of either changing that, or at least sending a message that they are tired of status quo in our political system. Most viewed Clinton to be untrustworthy. These are just some of the things I have personally heard. I am also trying to put myself in the shoes of others (on all sides!) to better understand… Read more »
Emily, I applaud your boldness in posting this and seeking to understand. I told myself to just stay away from the internet for awhile as the level of hate has risen beyond what I can comprehend (on both sides if I am being honest) but your attempt at reconciliation encouraged me. I’m Canadian so I had no hard choice to make, but I wanted to let all of you know that we stayed up late with you guys last night watching your election unfold. We prayed and we cried and tried to understand how angry and scared people must be feeling for this level of division to occur. You guys are not alone in this and I still think you all can come together and change the narrative – regardless of who sits in office.
Exactly this – from another Canadian!
I am a woman. I am a lesbian.
Yesterday, the majority of Americans voted a xenophobic, homophobic, racist, sexist man into the White House. His VP supports gay conversion therapy.
Last night, I sat immobilized while watching years of progression unravel.
If you voted for him, you don’t value my life. Or the lives of people I care about. People who are different because of their race, religion, gender, immigration status, or who they choose to love.
Today, I am grieving. This is not about politics, this is about human rights. My heart is aching.
Well said, Kerry.
Kerry, I value you and your life. And I grieve with you.
<3 a straight ally
Kelly, I am sending you love from an equally devastated straight mother of small children who is trying to find some love and hope in this crazy country
I’m so sorry for what you’re going through and I stand with you.
“If you voted for him, you don’t value my life. Or the lives of people I care about.”
Simply not true. There is more than one right path; there is more than one way forward.
This is her perception, whether you think it is true or untrue.
GG, agreed. My brother is gay and voted for Trump.
Your feelings have value. Your name calling is not respectful and your condemnation is indicative of the reason you will not be able to understand why anyone voted Trump. You will be a part of the divisive problem and not the solution if you cannot try to put yourself in another’s shoes.
The person in the other shoes (Trump) thinks she is a perverted piece of meat only good for sexually assaulting (if she is attractive enough), so no, she’s not going to be comfortable standing in those shoes
Kerry,
I am a woman. I’m straight.
I am grieving with you.
Thank you for adding your voice to this discussion.
Claudia
The majority of Americans did not vote for him. I take (very) small comfort in that, at least. At least a majority of Americans voted AGAINST Trump and his hate. Even though we lost.
This is a ‘Why did you vote for Trump’ thread, your comment does not belong here. That said, a sweeping comment such as “If you voted for him, you don’t value my life.”, is not conducive to civilized debate. I hope you read the responses in this thread, how other people have been struggling under all of the new regulations, and a continuation of the same government would mean they would lose their businesses and their homes, some already have. It is selfish of you to make a statement like you did when so many families are that close to being homeless, it is real, and HRC and Obama turned a blind eye and called them ‘privileged’ and ‘deplorable’. Many people in my town lost their jobs when a company from India bought a large business here, and replaced the ENTIRE staff with H1B’s. So yes, many of us are legitimately angry, and ‘who can marry who’ is not very high on the agenda when you have to worry about how to provide food and shelter for your children when jobs are taken away by H1B immigration loopholes and outsourcing. Everyone has a right to vote for what is important… Read more »
I did not vote for Trump – nor did any of my friends. I cried last night when he won. However, many of my co-workers and my family did vote for trump. I have had really wonderful conversations with those folks leading up to last night – because I wanted to understand their motivation. I would say there are two common reasons I have heard consistently, from people I respect and have always believed to be resonable. Both have to do with how Republican policies make a difference to them personally. 1. Lower Middle Class can’t afford healthcare – In California, the health care changes, and costs associated with those changes, have been overwhelming for families that make between $50K to $100K per year. It is so frusterating to the families that are working very hard, and they just can’t make ends meet – because their health care costs are skyrocketing, while their quality of care is deteriorating. There are a LOT of people in this category. Their health insurance premiums – while working full time and being subsidized by employers – can rival thier mortgage payments. They feel defeated, and they are looking for relief. 2. Upper Class are… Read more »
Hey Alisha, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. Your insight is really helpful for me, a highly insulated Clinton supporter.
I just wanted to chime in and say I am one of those people who has seen their health insurance costs go from less than $2K a year to a projected $13K next year if I have another baby and hit my out-of-pocket maxes. My family makes considerably more than much of America but we are still solidly middle class . We struggle at times. But I voted for Hillary. There was never a question in my mind. I voted for democracy, inclusion and the notion that we truly all are created equal. I am devastated and terrified about the rights that may be lost under a Trump presidency, including my own and the rights of those that I love. I believe in voting for the greater good and caring about my fellow Americans. And it really feels like half of America doesn’t share that sentiment and they only voted for their own self interests. It is really hard to come together when any person I know that voted for Trump is gloating, talking about locking Hillary Clinton up for crimes that were never committed. In a democracy we don’t lock up our political opponents when we win. You’re brave… Read more »
I wish there was a “like” button here….. same same
I voted for Trump because I believe the way to help everyone is by creating more jobs and better jobs. The only way to make better jobs is by helping the businesses we have to thrive. High taxes and high health care costs are killing small businesses. As a result, jobs are suffering. The best way to create opportunity for everyone is to encourage business growth. The best way to creat a larger tax base is to encourage bussiness growth. I don’t think he is perfect. But I fear that squelching small bussiness will kill our economy.
Hi Alisha;
I did not vote Trump (I voted Johnson because I think the 2-party system might be completely, forever broken) but I agree with your statement about the ‘lower middle class’ – I’m a graphic artist in that category financially. I have my own home, and I’ve worked to be out of debt completely so that I can live with a bit of freedom and experience life beyond a paycheck. That being said, I need a paycheck. The cost of healthcare in the last 2 years has gone beyond the cost of any mortgage or rent I have ever paid in my life. I don’t have healthcare now, But someday I’d like to. I know as a small business owner, I’m not alone. Government here feels like it’s getting too big, and I believe most Trump supporters in my state want it to get smaller. Lots of other reasons why it may have happened, but for me that one is the most powerful PERSONAL reason why I’d like to see change. I also disagree with HRC’s stance on late term abortion, while still being pro-choice.
Curious as to why you oppose HRC’s stance on late-term abortion..
I just don’t see how you can be pro-choice up until a point, but if it comes down to a late diagnosis, they’re SOL. Practically ALL late term abortions are because the life of the fetus or mother is in danger and the overwhelming majority of the time, whatever Issue isn’t discovered until relatively late – more than halfway- in the pregnancy anyway.
Emily — thank you for being a bright light in what feels like a lot of darkness. You are certainly embodying Michelle Obama’s words with this post. As a daily reader and giant fan-girl of yours, I’m happy to see you feel the way I do today.
I do hope that we, as non-Trump supporters, can come to understand the how and why of the other side. We need to learn from it. But I do also hope that Trump voters, too, can see the hurt and sadness in their neighbors eyes and open up their minds to us. There needs to be an exchange of ideas and an openness to resolve from both ends.
We could all use a little compassion and empathy today. I still believe that #lovetrumpshate.
Well said, Wendy!
I (as a Republican) see it, and I do sympathize. It was not an easy election for either side.
Didn’t vote for him but I’m from a state (Arkansas) that mostly supported him. Here’s what I learned from co-workers/friends. 1. it’s appealing that he’s not a politician. 2. The economy was the biggest issue to them and they felt his platform was best. 3. Overall even if they hated him as a person they preferred his policies. Alongside this they said since he wouldn’t and couldn’t act like a king/dictator bc of how our government works that made them feel a little better about voting for him. 4. Hillary’s platform to repeal the Hyde amendment was a pretty big deal for people I know. This is honestly the one thing that made me consider voting for Trump but similar to #3, I knew it was something that would have to pass in Congress, not just through her. Unfortunately there are also just crazy, actually racist people in my state too, but I didn’t talk with them about it. Ha. Hope that helps! It helped me deal when people I was close to told me how they voted. One friend literally said “I felt like I needed to shower after voting for him.” So for some people it still wasn’t… Read more »
I did not support Trump, nor Hillary. I voted third party for the first time, and I have peace about that decision. I do know many people, living in my rural area, who voted for Trump. The reasons they’ve shared: largely second amendment rights, pro-life beliefs, and the economy- especially taxes. These people feel they’ve worked hard to get where they are, to support their families, pay their bills, etc. and they resent that “hand-outs” are being given to others, when they’ve never received one themselves.
Now, I have counter arguments for each of those, even as a gun owner (again, rural area) who wishes abortion wasn’t ever necessary and already pays a hefty amount in taxes. But the point here is to try to see a different point of view, right?
Thanks for trying to open up a productive conversation, so we can all move forward, together.
Hi Claudia, thank you for sharing your perspective. Last night, I realized I don’t know half of my country. Your insights are really helpful.
Amen, Claudia. I voted third party and viewed it as a vote of protest, but I also live in an area where most people voted for Trump.
Bottom line? Most of them are fed up with their quality of life not being what they would like it to be—they’re angry about low pay, threatened gun rights, high taxes, and required health insurance. Most of them just want government to get out of the way and let them be the masters of their fate, so to speak. So they elected a non-politician.
It was a hard one for me. But in the end I did vote for Trump. I went with politics and party over the person. My family and many friends families are paying astronomical costs for healthcare. Many are paying more than the mortgage on their home. Obamacare is killing the self-imployed small business. I agree wholeheartedly with Trumps idea to open healthcare borders and let companies sell in other states. The monopoly of big insurance companies would dissolve and everyone would have access to more options and better pricing. Abortion was also big for me. Late term abortions should not happen, in my opinion. They don’t need to happen. Again, my opinion. I will close by saying I respect HRC as being the first woman presidential candidate. I hated this election from the beginning and although now we are scared and hurting, I know the America I know and love will continue to thrive. Because it’s never been the president, it’s always been the people.
Ugh. The spelling errors. Trying to type that on my phone was tedious.
Perfectly said. This is the exact reason I voted republican. When I took the names and faces away and just looked at policy i couldn’t deny my vote. My health insurance is more than my mortgage, with some of the best coverage available (that’s not saying too much, I know). I also had a baby at 32 weeks and watched her fight a hard fight for a life she deserves. I can’t stomach the thought of late term abortions, let alone any abortions. I was pro choice before having a premature baby, but spending weeks in the NICU surrounded by others in our shoes really solidified that in me. I also really value the Supreme Court justices and who could be appointed. I don’t like thinking I voted for trump, but I voted for the republic party and my beliefs. I applaud Hillary for fighting a good fight, but I do not support her in any way. I think there will be a female president one day, and I hope there is! But it just couldn’t be Hillary.
But nobody is going to take away a baby in the NICU from someone who loves it. How does another woman making a different choice to you have any impact on your baby?
You talk as if a late term abortion was going to be forced on you.
Also, devil’s advocate, the NICU has more time to spend on your wanted baby, when it isn’t spending time trying to treat a baby that was never going to live and that a loving, caring woman could have chosen to let go with grace.
Okay, so everyone is talking about how their healthcare costs went way up. I’m perplexed bc I lived in the US last year (I’m an American living in Canada and have been for years except the one) and Obamacare was a godsend for our family. Our payments went waaaaay down and we actually all had healthcare, where we didn’t before – only my husband. So…is this a state by state problem or did something change?
A lot of families saw their rates decrease, especially if they had any history of illness or didn’t have many options from which to choose. In some states, more companies decided to expand, offering more competition and choices. Not all states participate in the exchanges, either.
There a hundreds of reasons that rates went down for some folks, but most of us saw rates go up. Rates would have gone up anyway. I repeat, RATES WOULD HAVE GONE UP ANYWAY. The big difference is that Americans couldn’t opt out without paying a fine.
Probably because you get taxpayer subsidies – your insurance is ‘affordable’ because part of the cost was paid for by someone else. If you made more money (middle class) you had to pay the full premium, which was quite high and affordable.
You were shielded from the full cost is the answer.
There’s actually a lot of states that opted out of receiving funding from the ACA – and/or opted out of everything they could to do with the ACA – and yes, they saw their premiums rise, a lot. And, in other states, the first year went fine but they underestimated how much need there would be and so in the second year (2016) premiums went up. Of course, how much they went up by was cherry-picked as a political talking point.
We have seen our healthcare costs go up 10 fold in the last five years…and the numbers for next year are even worse. Everyone is getting squeezed (dr’s included) except the insurance co’s.
Sarah, are you aware that the vast majority of late term abortions are heart-breaking decisions to save the mother’s life? There are a few posters above with some first hand perspective, but it is imperative that this healthcare remain safe and available to women and their families.
Late term abortions save women’s lives. My husband performs abortions, but NEVER late term unless a woman’s life is at risk AND the baby has a condition that is incompatible with life. Yes, both conditions have to be met, and yes, those situations arise every day.
Hi Sarah. Thank you sincerely for sharing your views. I work for an insurance company and wanted to share some information here because I am confused by Trump’s stance on this issue. Insurance companies are already allowed to sell in other states. In fact, some provisions of the ACA encourage it. The companies themselves have chosen not to because they don’t want to build the network of providers (which is the highest start-up cost for our industry). I found this article explained it well: “In 2012, Ms. Corlette and co-authors completed a study of a number of states that passed laws to allow out-of-state insurance sales. Not a single out-of-state insurer had taken them up on the offer. As Ms. Corlette’s paper highlighted, there is no federal impediment to across-state-lines arrangements. The main difficulty is that most states want to regulate local products themselves. The Affordable Care Act actually has a few provisions to encourage more regional and national sales of insurance, but they have not proved popular. Insurers have been muted in their enthusiasm for G.O.P. across-state-lines plans. Neither America’s Health Insurance Plans, the lobbying group for most private insurers, nor the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association have endorsed… Read more »
I’d like to say that I voted for the Republican party and Mike Pence rather than for Trump, although I suppose I did cast a vote for him. It was not without some major prayer and reflection. I was sick for weeks about the decision and almost wrote in a candidate, but knew that it would make no difference in my state. I think at the core of my decision, I just do not support most of Clinton’s or the Democratic Party’s platforms. I don’t believe that her plans for tax changes would be successful. I don’t believe that “stealing from the rich and giving to the poor” will work in real life. (Honestly I support a simplified tax code that takes 10-20% across the board with no deductions, but don’t tell the accountants I work for that I said that.) As a Christian, I think it is the job of the individual and the church to support the poor, weak, orphaned and widowed, not the government’s. Shame on us for doing such a poor job that the government had to take it for us. I have seen no benefit from Obamacare to my family or anyone in my social… Read more »
Hey Trista, thank your for taking the time to write this thoughtful response. As a very sad Clinton supporter, I have to continue to remind myself that many of the people who voted for Donald Trump were doing so for the right reasons. Although you and I disagree on some policies, I really appreciate the difficult decision you made this election. Again, thanks for commenting today.
I’m sad that we were down to two candidates both of whom half the country was afraid of. I’m also heartbroken that our President-elect has put so many minorities and immigrants afraid for their lives/futures. This was not an easy election, and I think individually we all have a lot of love and compassion that needs to be shared across political lines.
Well said Trista. I agree wholeheartedly.
These are my thoughts exactly Trista, very well said.
Very, very well said. I agree completely.
Thank you! I 100% agree with you. It was a difficult decision.
Trista,
Thank you for your insight. I am curious tho. As a resident of Alabama, I know how the majority of my state is going to vote regarding social issues. If I don’t agree with it, say for example, because its discriminatory, is my last resort moving to a different state where they chose equality? That just doesn’t make sense to me. My rights, as an african american female here, are just as important as an african american female everywhere. I shouldn’t have to count on more progressive states to feel like my feelings count and then move my whole life there. Note: this is just a broad example. Thanks for listening!
My parents and in-laws voted for Trump. My mother is more on the conspiracy/fear of immigrants and Islam side of things. She’s really worried that Muslims will take over the country. She’s also very conservatively Catholic, so abortion is a big deal for her. She’d rather have had Ted Cruz to vote for, though. I don’t think she liked voting for Trump, but the ‘issues’ mattered more to her. My father is more concerned with the economy and was distrustful of Clinton because she formerly supported the TPP and only recently changed her side. In addition, he’s a two star general with the Air Force and intimately aware of security issues, so Clinton’s answer that “she didn’t know” or “didn’t understand the rules” or whatever it was she said and then not being punished for it irked him. If he had done even a fraction of what she did (regardless of the contents of the emails) he’d have been punished. He’s also concerned with how expensive insurance has gotten with the Affordable Care act. Gun control also ranks higher on the list. As a responsible gun owner, he does not like how close he perceives the country is getting to… Read more »
Hey Amy, thanks for sharing your perspective today. I’m really sorry to hear about your mother in-law’s illness. If our new government repeals Obamacare, I hope they’ll be able to pass something that can bring relief to her and to all those buried in medical bills.
All in all, I am befuddled with what we can about our healthcare system. My Grandfather was diagnosed with Stage 4 Lymphoma in 2005, and his privitized rates skyrocketed. Privatized or Federally mandated, it seems like the only winners here are the insurance companies.
Forgive the typos- on a phone. His rates went from $350/mo for a 64 and 65 yr old husband and wife to over $800/mo. after diagnosis. Treatments and prescriptions came in at an additional $900/mo after deductions.
I am so sorry to hear about your mother-in-law. I pray that when they repeal the ACA that the insurance companies won’t go back to their old ways of refusing care for pre-existing conditions. That ability was a problem for my family before the ACA went into effect, and I fear it will return once it is gone. A pre-existing condition can literally bankrupt a family and turn treatable conditions into death sentences. My heart breaks.
Your parents = my parents. Thank you for sharing the perspective. While I don’t agree with my family in this election, it’s important to see all sides, and theirs seems to be one I’ve seen multiple times.
Respectfully, to those of you pointing to abortion as the topic that tipped your vote, does the fact that abortion rates have gone down under our current (pro-choice) president factor in to your thought process at all?
Making birth control and women’s health options more available has caused the number of unwanted pregnancies to decline. Do you at least agree that those things need to remain?
We all want less abortions, no abortions. I just don’t want the government in my uterus!
EXACTLY! Agh. I work in public health, and it pains me that people just do NOT base decision making on facts.
First off, never commented on a blog until today. This is one of the only places I’ve found a real, respectful place to hear both sides. Way to go!
My husband and I have talked about this a lot. He works in the healthcare field and we are certainly a very pro-life, southern, Christian family. We focused a lot on what actually decreases the abortion rate and are basically like “hand out contraception like candy!! Teach real sex ed!” We are thankful that the rate has gone down. Our problem with Clinton’s platform to repeal the Hyde amendment is that our tax dollars would then be allowed to go towards abortion (which we believe is ending a person’s life) and that’s not okay with us. I really like tim kaine and we honestly both ended up voting third party. Take heart though, some of us do consider way more than just a candidates stance. I’ve frequently said to my conservative family that a Republican’s stance often does nothing to decrease the rate of abortions in America.
Thanks to the Hyde amendment, teenage girls raped by terrorists around the world are forced to bear their rapists’ babies.
The Hyde Amendment does not affect girls “around the world.”
Thanks for the question. Yes unwanted pregnancy is a much more complex issue than just abortion. I had to vote third party because of this. I believe we will look back on society 100 years from now and be disgusted at how prevalent abortions were at one time. Although you’re so right, it’s a wide range of policies that will help the situation, birth control and women’s health of course should stay and funding put towards that. Myself and all of the women I call friends are not just anti abortion but pro life. It’s almost more uncommon for a family not to adopted to have, serving at the local food shelters and clothes pantry is a regular occurrence, supporting women’s crisis centers (both financially and time) who support pregnant mothers with finances, resources, adoption placements if they choose, long term counseling. The narrative that being pro life means you don’t care about pregnant mothers in crisis is just not what I see around me. Obviously we are each in our own bubble (and there are many heartless out there) but I see good being done everyday for those in need.
I also think many people do not understand what a late term abortion is (along with Trump). They are extremely rare and in most cases are done only when the pregnancy is found to not be viable (which can only be determined at 24 weeks). This article may be helpful. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/10/21/doctors-trump-wrong-late-abortions/92515324/
Emily, this is such a very, VERY humble, open-minded post. Thank you. Let me start by saying I voted Third Party (for Evan McMullin), and did not vote for Trump. But my parents, my in-laws, and MANY friends that I deeply respect voted for Trump, and I completely understand why. I’m conservative, and am proud of it. I voted my conscience, because I couldn’t stomach Trump’s character flaws, and because as much as I DEEPLY DESIRE to say I voted for the first female president, I am frightened by Hillary’s policies and track record. I think that it is *shameful* that Hillary is the best female option we could give American voters, and that Trump is the best conservative option we could conjure up. Everyone said, “Vote for the lesser of two evils,” and I said, “I will vote for a person who I believe is best suited, and who I can TRUST.” I’m not far-removed from politics, nor do I live in a bubble. I live in Washington, DC, though I work in a creative field, not in politics. I’m at heart of this mess of an election. I’m also an entrepreneur, an intelligent, intellectual, informed woman (and a… Read more »
this was VERY well said. VERY.
Agreed.
Perfectly stated!
Thank you.
Amen
Yes!
Well said, Sarah. I never understood why NOT voting for Hillary would mean I am NOT a feminist. I believe in voting for the candidate I feel is best suited for the job, regardless of sex.
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!! Incredibly well written. Thank you!
As a another one of the few commenters here who actually voted for Trump, I have to say that I could not have voiced my rationale better than you did here. Our nation is headed into a tough time, and I continue to pray our future president (Mr. Donald Trump) will show caution and much more kindness with his words and actions as we move forward. I personally believe that most Trump voters fall into this exact same category — as opposed to the radical, fear mongering, hater picture that is so widespread — and that it is with a heavy heart we entrust someone (who makes us nervous to say the least that) with making some very tough decisions to bring forth prosperity again in our country.
Very, very well said. Thank you for expressing the opinions of me and so many of my family and friends who reluctantly voted for Trump, but in the same breath voted against Hillary.
YES ??
Thank you Sarah for this thoughtful and helpful explanation. As a Canadian I was lucky not to have to make such a difficult decision, but I probably would have voted as you did, and for the same reasons.
Spot on! I think we are so easily labeling people based on their vote, making things unfairly binary. I think if we would have had a female democratic candidate that had the upmost integrity and completely unquestionable character, a women for our daughters to look up to not just based on what’s she’s done….it would have been a landslide.
Very well said! I completely agree with you!
Thank you. You hit the nail on the head.
“I know I’m in the minority here, but I don’t need a woman in the White House to validate my ability to achieve whatever I want. I need an administration that understands national security, financial deficits, and freedom of religion and speech.” You are not on the minority–I couldn’t have said it any better. I, however, did vote for Trump. I can teach my daughter to be kind, forgiving and accepting but I cannot improve the nation’s healthcare system or crippling debt. While I certainly didn’t agree on a lot of social issues, I liked his business prowess and background. Additionally, I am a proud, educated, American whose veteran father PROUDLY served his country for 24 years. I am not ignorant, a racist, or a bigot. I will raise my daughter as I was raised: with the belief that she can move mountains. A doctor, the President, a teacher, a model, or a stay-at-home mom–she can do whatever she wants, thanks to the hard work and determination of women, like Hilary Clinton. And, while I personally, did not vote for Obama, I did respect the nation’s voice when he was elected and then re-elected. I accepted him as my President… Read more »
Agree with everyone else who has replied–this is very well said.
Very well-stated and exactly what I wish I could express as a fellow Evan McMullin supporter. Emily, read this! This is how most conservatives I know think.
Thank you, Sarah (from a fellow McMullin voter) for expressing so well what many of us believe.
I can respect voting third party to avoid Trump but a third part vote based on your philosophy felt like a vote that could have been used to defeat trump. Seeing the third party votes that lost state electorate points was so painful. As a person of color, I feel abandoned by people that contributed to the election of Mr.Trump. It felt like everyone was saying that we don’t care about you.
And I get not wanting a large federal governments, but state and local governments aren’t always friendly to minority groups (look up wisconsin reps). Also, federal protections are so important, There are federal regulations to keep our food, water, air, and consumer products (would you like lead in your lovely painted ceramic case. There are a lot of states that given the opportunity cut corners, and they already do (i.e. voter id laws, unjust police policies, environmental protections).
Sarah, I completely respect your opinion, and am grateful that you voiced it. However, I find it humorous that you say you feel abandoned by third party voters, because from day ONE up until standing in line to vote, I was told that a third party vote was a vote for Hillary.
You said it so much better than I could.
Perfectly stated.
I didn’t vote for either candidate. I didn’t vote at all. I felt like both candidates were terrible choices. I’m firmly in the camp of believing the Clintons are political scumbags only out for personal gain. And Hillary was sorely lacking the charisma that swept her husband into office. I didn’t understand the uproar over Trump’s misogynist comments when we put up with similar behavior from Bill Clinton for so many years. On the other hand, my first reaction to Trump throwing his hat in the ring was how can we expect someone who has declared bankruptcy multiple times (whenever the going gets tough) to be a fiscally responsible leader? My friends who were rabid Trump supporters didn’t understand my concerns. Other friends were rabid Hillary supporters and didn’t understand my abhorrence of Hillary’s whatever it takes to win behavior. Maybe you only have friends in both camps when you’re old. Don’t razz me for not voting, I really felt like there were no good options. Probably enough people felt like me and voted for the third guy, costing Hillary the election.
I’d love to hear respectful follow up comments from Clinton supporters to Juli’s post above.
I am absolutely disgusted by Trump. But how IS he different from Bill Clinton? Bill is more “boyish” and “charming” so his disgusting exploits become joke fodder for decades, yet people often distinguish his sexual exploits from his ability to lead. Maybe an argument for Bill is that his crude behavior seemed consensual? But I still think a woman who is married to a dog who didn’t have basic respect and human decency for the sake of both of their political careers also degrades women.
I am a House of Cards fan, and though it is fiction, too often I found myself thinking that the Underwoods were likely caricatures of the Clintons. Maybe that is unfair, but I honestly feel like career political success requires far more self serving and underhanded dealings than 100% Hillary folks dare to admit…And if I am completely wrong on that, it still might be a window into the real distrust that even democrats in my area, who were not “pro hillary” feel. I am sick of family dynasty in politics. The second Bush shouldn’t have happened either.
To respond to juli’s comment and yours, the fundamental difference between Bill Clinton’s infidelities and Trump bragging about groping and kissing women is the word “consent”. Though I’ve always found Bill Clinton’s behavior reprehensible, he acted with a consensual partner while Trump claims to be able to do anything he wants (whether the woman wants it or not) because he is famous. The man is a raging narcissist.
Bill wasn’t running. I don’t think his shenanigans are valid.
But Hillary putting up with Bill’s shenanigan’s are valid.
I didn’t vote Trump, but my parents did, and they are from the rural population of Pennsylvania (the population that won PA for Trump). I would say they agree with some of Trump’s ideas, mostly about the economy, and think as a businessman he could have an interesting take on the presidency. But mostly, they really, REALLY did not like Hillary. They would have voted for any major candidate opposing her. They felt a lot of her past actions were criminal, and felt a lot of her future actions would go against their religious beliefs. I was actually quite amused in a way listening to last night’s coverage (NPR haha), the commentators were so confused: who ARE these people voting for Trump? I wanted to send them an invite to my family’s Thanksgiving, which will be a very “interesting” occasion at our house this year I’m sure 🙂
Voting allows all voices to be heard, not just the talking heads on TV or celebrities. What is very clear is there are many voices who want to try a different approach. This is not about hate (people saying that need to work on accepting differences in others) and not a “step-back” but a show of defiance to the status quo. Our county is built on self-determination and about half the country thinks the government’s job is to protect your feelings from other people’s right to be different than you. The other half of the country wants the government to get out of the way and go back to more limited role so individuals can self determine (and decide what and whom to spend $$on). This election is much broader than who is president- this is about how do we want our current and future government to work. Today we see two different mindsets dividing the country. The country spoke yesterday and the other half was finally heard. Thank you Emily for using your platform as an open conversation, as you have about several other issues in the past, to allow all your readers to hear and grow as individuals… Read more »
Yes, “conservative ideas are not closed minded, hurtful (sexist, racist, homophobic xenophobes, etc…. choose whatever attach is being hurled today)” , but many candidates in this party are
I’d just like to respectfully ask what your stance on gay marriage is, as someone who is stating conservative ideas are not closed minded nor hurtful. I am genuinely curious as to if this is something you disagree with the general Republican party on, or if you believe gay marriage should not be allowed – but in the same note don’t find that hurtful for those who can’t live their life freely?
I would genuinely like to hear & understand your thoughts on gay marriage. Do you disagree with the Republican party on their stance to ban it? Or do you not believe gay individuals should have the rights to get married – but think this is somehow not hurtful to these people and their freedom? Really trying to find an understanding on this point. Someone’s right to marry another person really has no impact on your individual marriage/life, and helps raise tax money.
Sorry for the double (now triple!) post! My screen was somehow wiped and refreshing didn’t show my comment appearing. Gah – technology!
I voted for Trump because I felt Hillary was a liar and a fraud. As the wife of a veteran, I am devastated for the families who lost loved ones in Benghazi. Trump is FAR from perfect (and was not who I voted for in the primaries). But when I took away their political affiliation and compared them side by side, I couldn’t ignore that Hillary lied at every.single.point. in her run for election. There are many other points, but I teach my children that integrity and be truthful, even when it’s not what we want to hear, is important. Hillary didn’t do that for me. I can’t agree with Trump on all his view points, but I think that would be the same for any candidate. I am very hopeful that we can really come together as a nation and this will be a positive choice for our country.
I am having a hard time with this comment. Donald Trump lied throughout his candidacy. It’s been extensively documented.
(http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/25/opinion/campaign-stops/your-facts-or-mine.html)
And as a veteran’s wife, what did you think of Trump belittling a dead soldier’s parents?
Honestly trying to understand, and respectfully challenge you, as the facts differ from your comment.
This is an argument that I have heard from others, and I genuinely want to understand why, when focusing on honesty, Trump’s consistent lies are less offensive than the perception of Clinton’s dishonesty. I recognize that I come at it with my own bias, but Trump appears (and statistically is recorded) to lie far more frequently than any other candidate. What is the difference between his dishonesty and hers?
My husband and I have had this discussion many times: WHY is it that Trump can say to the most horrible, offensive things, and lie lie lie, and I still come away with an strange attitude of “I bet he isn’t as bad as he seems”. And yet ALL other politicians, regardless of party, say all the right, appropriate smooth things leave me thinking “I KNOW they are worse than they seem”.
Part of me wonders if many people feel this way… We know he is a narcissist, and manipulative. I find myself hoping that he was manipulating his own crowd by being more racist and bigoted than he actually is. And that he will prove to be more mellow than the character he played in the election? I hope he lets down all those rabid “Build the fence” chanters, etc. I can see him saying “Ha ha, I was just using you to get what I wanted!”
I can tell you that for me, there is a very, very, VERY big difference in a guy who told lies while he was a private citizen and the breach of trust that lies told by a woman who works for the citizens of the United States, to us. She worked for US. She failed US. She lied to US. All while she was sworn to uphold our trust.
It’s like the difference between president Bill Clinton and private Bill Clinton. Bill getting blowies under the desk now? Don’t care. Bill getting blowies under the desk while he should be focusing on his job? Not acceptable.
I did vote for Trump. My reasons (as it looks like a few others here had too) were to look beyond the person, as difficult as it was, and look to the issues (primarily less government oversight/spending/control). I felt that the US needed a fresh perspective and have hopes that Trump will build a respected and intelligent cabinet to guide his decision making process. It wasn’t an easy choice, as I felt neither were 100% qualified, but I also realized that NOT voting, was in a way, voting. I feel like his win will actually be a shake up for ALL of America in that half of us wanted change and the other half didn’t realize how frustrated the first half truly felt and they used their vote as their way to have their voice herd…let’s follow in your steps and start understanding they why so we can go forward in rebuilding an obviously divided country.
I was originally a Bernie Sanders supporter, and I voted for Jill Stein, but I can totally understand why people voted for Trump. Many, many people in this country are economically hurting and want a change. A vote for Hillary meant a vote for the status quo, more of the same which is not working out so well for most Americans. Trump has pledged to end trade deals like NAFTA which will hopefully bring jobs back to the US, and he has pledged to end our unnecessary & costly foreign military interventions. Hillary has been involved in far too many criminal investigations/enterprises and many Americans believe had Hillary won, we would definitely see a continuation of war mongering and corporate cronyism.
After a long internal struggle I chose to vote for Donald Trump. Someone on Fox News said last night that much of the message of Trump resonates with much of the American population, whether or not he was the best messsanger doesn’t change the message. He’s so incredibly flawed. Hillary is also incredibly flawed. In the end, I voted not for the president but for Supreme Court justices. Those that Hillary would appoint would likely move so far from the constitution and what I believe are core and foundational beliefs this country was founded on, I couldn’t not vote for Trump. If there
I did vote for Trump but I didn’t feel great about it. I struggled right up to the polls. I would love to see a woman in the white house, I thought being a Hillary supporter looked fun–saying “I’m with her” and wearing a cute pant suit to the polls 😉 But I disagree with Hillary on too many issues to vote for her. I believe in small government. I don’t think government should be involved in healthcare. I grew up in the military with government ran healthcare. It is inefficient and impersonal. As a parent I would prefer to have more control over my children’s healthcare. I also think the government has too much control over education i.e. common core. Free college for everyone sounds good on paper, but college as public school I think will water down education significantly. I also disagree with her stance on abortion. The supreme court justice nominations will be during this term and I would prefer to have more conservative judges. These issues are important to me and that is why I chose Trump. I was disappointed that he won the primaries, but I am hoping he sticks with the agenda he has… Read more »
I have to admit, in my adult life, I’ve never seen such a passionate division in a presidential race. So many adults upset by the decisions that didn’t go their way. And yet, the majority voted and made a the decision to elect Trump. With so many people turning to social media to vent their frustrations, is blindness taking over? I applaud you Emily for being open to the decision, even though you’re not in agreement, you are taking the time to understand and willing to be open to others viewpoints. You are such an inspiration! Thank you!!
I appreciate this conversation too. I do think it’s important to note that Hillary won the popular vote– the majority of Americans voted for her.
The life experiences, and possibly also the opportunities, of those in urban areas is more diverse and broad than many experience in rural America. Understanding why each view exists is a great conversation to help us find the middle ground for our future.
I’m splitting hairs here because I know this wasn’t the overall point of your comment, but I noticed you stated that the majority voted to elect Trump. I just want to clarify that the majority voted to elect Clinton. She won the popular vote by roughly 200,000 votes. Of course the electoral college is what matters in the end, but I keep seeing the conversation framed as “more Americans chose Trump” and felt compelled to correct it. Carry on!
Oops. Sorry. I missed that Maya already pointed this out. Apologies.
I didn’t vote for Trump, but two men close to me did, my Dad and my husband. I believe in both cases their reasoning was based on Trump’s success in business and the rationale that he can bring some of that success to our larger economy. I know this is generalizing, but I think men are more capable of compartmentalizing the issues – they can look past his personality and focus on other issues. For me, I couldn’t get past it TO look at the issues.
In any case, thank you for this platform as it’s helping me to understand and process.
I am a Republican because I am a fiscal conservative. I am not a supporter of Trump, but I did vote for him primarily because of the importance this presidency will have on the make-up of the Supreme Court. Without ideological balance among its membership, the Court simply could not perform the checks and balance function that our nation’s founders intended for it. I’m not hoping for a reversal of Roe v. Wade or any of the decisions that have pushed our country’s social agenda forward – and, in fact, I think it’s highly unlikely that even a 100% conservative court would do so. But I do think it’s critical for the Court to be made up of opposing viewpoints that will challenge each other on the toughest issues facing our country. In four years, our country will have another opportunity to reject Trump, but the implications of an unbalanced Supreme Court would take decades to correct.
I am Canadian and have been watching the election process with morbid faascination.
I do not understand how any one could seriously consider voting for a man who has been endorsed by the KKK and the american nazi party. A man who has been sued over 4000 times, who routinely cheats people who do business with him. He has no respect for women or minorities. And all because the other fully qualified candidate does not make you feel all worm and fuzzy.
I wil never travel to the US again, you have completly lost my respect.
Imagine our disappointment.